I don’t get it. A huge flower and a blue wrought-iron chair? And the teensy font for the title; how about looking at a thumbnail image before publishing… Just a thought.
gp
10 years ago
I like her look for some reason, but that was quickly offset by whatever she’s holding. Does this “angel” (?) have butterfly wings?
Brenda
10 years ago
The flower is the only friend the bullies allowed her to have.
Axolotl
10 years ago
Perhaps she only bullies because she has a pig snout and hair hanging over her eyes?
The girl image has some nice elements in it. It could probably be developed into something quite nice–but WTF is up with her chin?!? It’s like Celine Dion after botched surgery.
LydiaFC
10 years ago
I think someone was doodling in her notebook during class. Again. What do you have to say for yourself, Missy?!!
The girl in this drawing is a real girl my daughter…. I am the mother of the two girls that designed this cover. The drawing is to capture the innocence of a young girl in the form of an angel. The girls who drew the picture did not want to sexualize it either so that the innocence of the angel was kept. The wings are tribal angel wings, not a rod iron chair, but the way that it is positioned withing the book would be hard to tell. The flower is a hibiscus flower that represents the friendship between five girls within the book and how there friendship with one another was broken and rebuilt again. This picture also represents a memorial at the end of the novel where an angel is holding the hibiscus flower after a death of one of the key characters in this novel. By the way this is an actual picture younger daughter face so the insulting comments are pretty hurtful to see after her ordeal in her young teenage years also this book is a fictional telling of her story of being bullied and attempting to commit suicide. Though you have a right to your opinion of this cover I believe what just happened here is an accurate representation to the title of this novel. That my daughter is the angel and you are the bullies. Even though unintentional you still indirectly bullied a young teenage girl that has lived through at torturous or deal and is still fighting to over come it.
Ah, yes, the “B” word again: If we don’t love your daughter’s drawing, we’re bullies! Also, the terrorists will have won!
Ma’am, if this artwork were hanging on your refrigerator, we wouldn’t break into your home and make snide remarks. But you PUBLISHED this, for all the world to see. By doing so, you are in effect declaring that it is in level competition with the professional publications beside which it is offered for sale. It is NOT. If you don’t wish to subject your children to the fact that other people might have negative opinions of their amateur work, DON’T PUBLISH THEM FOR ALL THE WORLD TO SEE.
This could have been a learning experience for your daughters. If you put something out there for the world to see, there is going to be criticism. Not everyone is going to like what they do, and if they are too fragile to handle that, then you shouldn’t allow them to create something that will be on the internet where people will have opinions, some of which are not favorable. You could be teaching them that lesson instead of whining about bullying when you don’t seem to have a clue what true bullying is.
Tia as a medical professional I do know what bullying is. There are several types just as with many illnesses. This is specifically why I said it was unintentional. My issue is not with the comments of the cover but the rude comments to the angel’s face because that is my daughter’s actual face, only it’s animated. If someone made rude comments about your appearance would you not consider that was bullying.
Mam – Bullying is intentionally hurting someone you are acquainted with. Saying the drawing of the face is bad has nothing to do with “bullying” because no one knows your daughter or the child who drew this cartoon version of her.
auto correct is a bitch on a iphone…. anime is the word I wanted my bad…. and my daughter is a beautiful girl but hey say what you want.
B. yes bullying is a medical condition
1. causes alter mental status change in the person being bullied, other diagnosis given PTSS, cluster b behavior traits, self harming behaviors, suicidal idiology, and suicide. Which are all medical conditions that have resulted in young adults being bullied.
2. On he side of the person who is the bullier, and this DOES NOT apply to all, there is emotion behavior disorders.
Kris I can grasp the difference I meant unintentional again I apologize, for my spelling errors I spend to much time deciphering doctors hand writing and have forgotten how to spell 99.9% of the time. Also I do understand that no one here knows who she is. But as her mother my first instinct is to protect. I don’t truly care about 90% of the comments on here I just the comment to her face that I have reacted to. Two years ago I had a beautiful confident 13 year girl change drastically in a matter of months she lost all confidence and self worth attempt to kill herself on several occasions because of comments like this but also as well as to people in her face bullying her directly. So if anything else can you understand where I am coming from in all this?
But I have also agreed that this could have been allot better. The original hand drawing is better than this, when Nicarra took it from a hand drawn picture her sister and she drew, and transposed it over to a computer drawing it lost allot of the detail and quality of the original. I completely agree with that. But I give these girls allot of credit for what they have accomplished, without help or guidance or knowing all the things that the professionals do. and Linnea I hope this answers your question to me too. Its not about the drawing itself.
Ohh, a medical professional! The woman who takes my payment and tells me to sit in the waiting room until the doctor calls me considers herself a “medical professional” so sorry but I’m not terribly impressed. You keep stroking your own ego though, sunshine. You still don’t know what bully is. No one made a comment about your daughter’s appearance. Comments were made regarding a drawing that apparently was supposed to be your daughter’s face. If you can’t tell the difference between “The drawing looks like she has a pig snout” and “Your nose looks like a pig snout” then there is no hope for you.
And to answer your question no, someone making a rude comment about a DRAWING of me would not be bullying. It would be an opinion about the DRAWING.
If this is what you meant the cover to mean, look into hiring someone who can illustrate to get across the meaning better. Perhaps look at DeviantArt and other places like this where people go to showcase their work and can be hired. Because it doesn’t look like any of those things you just wrote. It looks like an amateurish drawing of someone with a pigsnout and hair in their face sitting on a wrought iron chair, having just blown something horrible out of their nose into a soggy magenta tissue. The cover you have chosen to use does nothing to entice your target market to buy it.
Thank you so much for the information. I had no clue about the DeviantArt website. I will definitely keep it in mind for future projects. I have hired a professional designer who is now in the process of redesigning the cover for this novel. She is targeting the end of the month for completion.
As for the meaning on the cover, I’m actually tickled pink with what the girls did. Even though this design doesn’t look the greatest, their first initial pencil sketch looked very good. The transition into a new medium (especially for them since they do not normally work in a media other than pencil, chalk, paint, etc) was okay. Could they have done better – ABSOLUTELY! Again, it was MY fault for being impatient and rushing their design. As for the other issues, please see my commentary below – again MY fault. The other reason why I AM happy with the design is because BOTH girls actually retained and applied knowledge they obtained from my classroom 3+ years after having me as their full time language arts teacher. They took elements from the story (themes, symbols, etc) to design the angel. So from my “teacher” perspective, it was SPOT ON.
I am glad to read the cover is being redesigned and the book will be republished with a better cover. Probably better for the children who did the illustration as well, as I imagine when they are older it might be looked back upon as a bit of an embarrassment.
Why embarrassment? I’ve looked back on a number of things in my past (writing, websites, engineering, teaching, etc) and have not been embarrassed by my short-comings. I am certainly not embarrassed by this cover because I know the meaning involved in it and the story it represents. What I think you need to understand is that this is a learning experience and process for all of us. I never look back on things in my past and say, “Oh, I am so embarrassed that I did that.” I look back and say, “Wow, look at where I am today because I did that.” The way you have it worded makes it appear heartless for the kids. Never mind all that has transpired between others on this site – it’s water under the bridge. The positive tone is what will determine the future for someone. For example, I have an uncle that is probably the meanest “B@%^!*#” on this planet. All throughout my life, and even today, he continually tells me that “I’m worthless,” “I’ll never make it in any profession (art, engineering, teaching, writing novels, etc),” etc. I GAVE UP my dream of becoming an animator or imagineer for Disney because he, too, had similar comments such as yours. He told me that my art was crap and that everything that I’ve done is an embarrassment on the family and myself. Even when I won awards and sold artwork he said the same things and told me I was “lucky.” So you see I have a soft spot for these two girls. Don’t kill their dreams saying that they may look back upon this experience as an embarrassment. It wasn’t. It was a test to see how they can overcome and move forward in the future. As adults we can handle criticism (to a point), but teenagers still have not developed the reasoning centers of their brains (true fact – I’d give you the link to the research if I had more time) which makes comments such as yours detrimental to their mental health (also proven I have it in my special education textbooks right now).
When I was a child, I used to draw pictures, and my mother told me they sucked. Now I am an adult, when I look at the pictures I used to draw (the ones my mother didn’t burn) I can see she was right. I am glad they did not escape into the public domain with my legal name attached to them, where they might show up on Internet searches should I apply for a job, or other situations where people might look up a person. I would suggest to any child wanting to publish something (especially as it is now so easy to get stuff out there) that they wait a bit and see what their opinion is of what they have produced when they are older, and are capable of much better. This website quite clearly demonstrates that In Public is a wild and brutal place where people will express opinions on things, and what would have been a harmless child’s illustration to stick on a fridge door and enjoyed by family in the normal course of things becomes the subject of jokes and criticism. Whilst it might be perfectly artistically adequate for someone of such age, it isn’t up to the standard expected for the cover of a published book. And it surely isn’t good for a young person’s mental health to have their childish art upheld to that sort of mature scrutiny.
Again, I understand where you are coming from, but the whole RESPONSIBILITY rests with ME the author who took the work and used it for the cover. If it weren’t for me, this work would NOT be out in the public domain (as you have illustrated in many different ways). But my question is do you punish the teenager who had no inclination or do you punish the adult who should’ve known better. Logic, common sense, and just a plain sense of good moral character places the blame on the adult (ME) who should’ve known better.
Again, this is a learning experience for all of us and cutting teenagers down for just following the lead of an adult that they trust is not fair to THEM. We, as adults and a competent moral society, should uplift them, encourage them, and help them succeed. Why? Because that is what we are supposed to do as adults.
As for the job issue in the future, I’ve hired and fired more people than I care to remember in my life. I can see your point, but it’s more detrimental to have out something immoral than it is for a cover design gone amuck. Even if the teens do apply for a design or artistic job in the future, I highly doubt this one cover would remove them from the job. Especially if the job is high demand and they have improved their portfolios by that time. Even still, they can always say to the hiring manager that, “I made that when I was fifteen-years-old.” I’m sure it would turn out as a great conversation or icebreaker for both.
As I have stated, restated, and continue to argue – the whole issue is MY fault so let’s move forward, help the teens to focus on their dreams, and not become adults that chastise and destroy the hopes of our children. We already have too much of it in our society and it leads to some dark places (suicide, depression, cutting, aggression, school shootings, etc).
well, heck she half Mexican you can blame her nose on her dad and the picture of her self that she used to draw her face I think she was flaring out her nostril a bit more than usual… and i did agreed with you about the wings a good percentage of them where cut out on the layout. I would also give you the tissue part too. But you should see the damn hibiscus flowers in my garden the dam thing is huge and when her older sister drew that she took a picture of her younger sister holding it and that is how it looked. So it is what it is. And they are amateurs, still in high school. Not denying that either. Again it is what it is.
What does her dad being Mexican have to do with her not being able to draw a decent face? Could she not look in a mirror to see what her own face looks like?
As I requested below in another post, please take out your frustrations and commentary about the cover on ME, the author, who decided to use the image created along with other poor choices. The “original” sketch done by the girls is very good for that age level. I remember being in two competitive art programs at that age when I attended high school and I still did not have the same amount of talent as these two girls. Going back and forth on this issue is not worth it.
Again, I made the decisions for this cover and I ALONE should take RESPONSIBILITY. Please do not continue to drag this out on what a couple of high school girls created in a medium that they had no prior experience working with before doing this work.
The very fact that you need to explain what is in the picture is proof that the picture is not doing its job. A good picture needs to speak for itself, if it needs an interpreter or a defender, that is a clear sign there’s something wrong with it.
For example, if I were to draw a circle on a blank piece of paper, what would you see? You’d see a circle. I could go on and on explaining how the circle represents the vastness of the universe, the sanctity of life, the connectedness of all things and who knows what else, but it would still be just a circle on a blank piece of paper. I could claim it’s a flower, it would still be just a circle on a blank piece of paper. The only way it would be a flower if I drew an actual flower. Now, you can go about the internet and track down all the people that have seen the cover and explain to them that it’s not a rod iron chair but angel wings, or you and your daughters can use it as an opportunity to learn, and the next time she draws wings she can make sure other people can clearly see they are wings. The way to stop people from saying it’s a rod iron chair is not to call them bullies, but to make the wings not look like a rod iron chair. It’s as simple as that. The better your work is, the less things people will find to complain about. If there are lots of things people complain about, your work is not good enough, period. If your work has lots of mistakes in it, you are practically giving people the ammunition to come after you. It’s like wearing a clown suit to school and then complain that people are laughing at you. If you want people to stop laughing, stop wearing a clown suit, don’t yell at them and call them bullies. Make your work beyond reproach, and you will not be reproached. It’s as simple as that.
Actually the rod iron chair issue is MY fault again. When I put the image the girls created into the template from CreateSpace, it did not give me much play in manipulation. I could not shrink the image size down far enough in order to get the remainder of the angel wings into the circle. Again, because of my lack in skill, impatience, and ignorance, I went with what I could accomplish on my own. It didn’t work. If you do get the chance to see the original cover art, which I believe I have on my website in the rotating picture viewer, you would see the complete concept of the tribal style wings. Here again, my request for the tribal art (sorry something I like because of my Native American heritage) caused more issues over letting the wings just look like normal wings.
In addition, this is for you and any additional posters on this site, please take out any frustrations and commentary on ME. I, being naïve, did not consider the implications of using their work in this way. I certainly did not consider how negative commentary could hurt them; therefore, damaging everything that I swore as a teacher to protect. So, please, take it out on the guy who actually designed the cover and not just one piece that was put together in a medium that is unfamiliar to the original artists.
It’s not frustration, sorry if it sounded that way. The point of my post, which I haven’t really made clear, is that you can either complain about it, or use this as a learning experience. It’s what I myself have learned over the years: you can argue with people who comment/critique/flame your work, or you can remove the source of the argument out of your work, which will in turn make it better. I found the second option to be much more productive.
We all make silly mistakes, whether from impatience, inexperience or naivete, it’s only human. But we should learn from them, not defend them. And, I think, despite the initial outbursts, you have all managed to learn something from this.
Hurt feelings aside, an honest comment, even a rude and callous one, is hundred times more helpful and useful than when a friend pats you on the back and tells you what a great job you’ve done, when in reality he feels completely the opposite. What happened here was perhaps hard, emotionally, but it’s a good thing. An honest comment is often hard to come by, and should be used to improve ones work. It’s also not bullying for one simple reason: evening that was said, heartless as it might be, was truthful, and if the issues in question were corrected, no one would “bully” you any more. A real bully doesn’t need reasons and excuses, he would bully you just because he can, and no amount of changing or “correcting” the cause of bullying would make him stop.
That’s fine. My issue right now is this site is about lousy book covers and not lousy art. Some of the commentary now being made is attacking the art produced by two amateur girls that I should have protected better. Granted the art “IS” a part of the cover and I understand that concept.
However, part of the issues surrounding the art come from MY decisions in the cover creator and other sources. For example, I forced the girls to utilize a form of art that they have never used before – an art program for the iPad. These girls usually compose their art in pencil, pen, chalk, or paint. The need to switch was because when we took an original version and an original version colored and scanned the images, we got too much pixilation with the transfer process. In addition, I pushed the girls to rush the digital creation causing additional issues in the process. When you add in my flubs with the cover design software online, you get what we have here.
This has been a truly rewarding and eye-opening experience for me as a self-published author. I have nothing but the utmost respect for all of the posters on this site because I took time to view your websites, blogs, and other materials to get a sense of your background. I want to learn and become better so that I can utilize my writing gifts to the greatest extent God has provided for me.
Again, in my mind, the commentary needs directed to ME the author and not the girls. They did the best they could with what they had and the minimal time to complete the project. If others cannot understand what or why I am asking this, then I really have no other way to explain it. It’s kind of like engineering. I spent years designing molds to make parts that probably shouldn’t have been designed or created in the first place. Yet when a part fails or a consumer forces a recall it doesn’t go back to the part designer – it goes back to the engineer who created the tool to produce the part. That engineer should’ve stopped and told the part designer that the part is not strong enough, has some issues with cosmetics, etc. I hope that this analogy makes some sense. Yes, the girl’s art may not be the best, but it was ME (the engineer) that didn’t stop the process for make the correct fix. I know that now and the new cover will make a difference.
Mam 1087
9 years ago
oh but kind sir just because i allowed a work of art of my daughters combined efforts become published Does not mean I am or anyone else is saying that it as at any level of competition. In fact it is an accomplishment made by two young individuals that many others their age can not say they have made. It will look great on their college resumes for the future. The author wanted an original and an amateur not a professional and these girl took there imagination to one scene from the novel and deciphered it in to an original work of art. You are entitled to your opinions and I have stated that, with that I gave you the interpretation of the drawing and the meaning behind it. But as a mother when there is derogatory comment on her child’s personal image, she will defend which I have done. Like I said earlier everyone has a right to their opinion of the cover. But keep in mind there is a fine line to being a critic and a bully and not all bullying is intentional. Could have these girls done something better I know they could have but they liked the simplicity of this drawing and the simplicity of it make the picture itself beautiful. Could other things been done to make the cover stand out more I would agree but everyone starts somewhere.
And right about the point at which you say “not all bullying is intentional,” you prove that you use the word “bullying” to mean “an opinion I don’t like.” Your claim that publishing it to the world does not mean “that it is any level of competition” shows that you don’t understand what “publishing” means. And frankly, your use of just about all of the other words in your comment casts serious doubt upon your ability to form a cogent communication. You may now complain to all your friends and family how mean I am. Good day.
Ma’am, as a woman who was bullied her whole adolescent life, I’d have to say you don’t seem to understand what it’s about. While Nathan, and his commenters, can be rather rude, and I have seen them cross the lines at times, I don’t think it’s bullying.
Were this not your daughter’s work, would you still be angry? Or are you ruffling your feathers as a mama bear willing to defend your daughters till the end of the earth? I can tell you now you’re not doing them any favors attacking someone they’ve never met, whose never met them, and honestly doesn’t give a crap what you say. It’ll only teach them they don’t have to fight for themselves, that mama will give a harsh tongue whipping to anyone who hurts them. But guess what? The world is harsh and one day you won’t be there to protect them.
In any case, bullying is not happening here. Some of the comments are rude, but people have every right to their opinion, and every right to state it. Just because you dislike it doesn’t make it bullying. Just means people understand the concept of freedom of thought. Had you handed me this picture and told me the story, I would have complimented your daughters because it meant something PERSONAL to them. Once it’s on a cover that personal aspect disappears because it’s no longer about them. It’s the face of a novel, the face of an author, and it needs to be judged as so. Not judged as a young girl expressing her inner self, because a book cover is never about the artist.
I do agree that sometimes the commenters go too far, but there’s a difference between rude and bullying, and it’s one I don’t think you’ve quite grasped.
Panther
9 years ago
The critic had his feathers ruffled lmao
Btw publish is not the same as competition
As for the cover would I catch my eyes yes how couldn’t that bright purple do that the drawing is an interesting concept of an angel but the cover could have been more thought out to enhance the angel
Mam u made your argument clear props to standing up to a critic
Same email address. Seriously? You’re sock-puppeting to support yourself?
And yes, it is competition in the marketplace. By publishing your ebook and asking money for it, you are declaring that your book is worth people’s money. And if someone points out that certain key indicators, such as cover quality, are not indicative of such value, you get all high and might and start labeling people as bullies.
Doubly pathetic. Please stop embarrassing yourself — or if you must do it, please do it on your own site, not mine.
Suzie
9 years ago
$5.99 for a book with 150 pages. A horrible cover I would be ashamed to publish. WOW! You call people bullies because we do not like what your child has created. Do everyone a favor and go back to hiding in your isolated little world. I would be ashamed to put this on a college resume and would not be surprised at any professor who laughs at the cover. I honestly think my rabbits create better art moving their morning salad around looking for the special treat.
Waffles
9 years ago
My favourite part about this entire turn of events is that many of the original comments were about things that they liked about the cover and how to improve the other elements. Sarcasm was involved of course… but still.
One of the comments was about how the text size wouldn’t show up in a thumbnail. As your daughters are not professional designers, what an opportunity that would have been to grow and learn how to be a better designer. You could have looked at the thumbnail together and all noticed that was true and found a way to improve it together. To learn together.
There is actually a place specifically designed for constructive and helpful comments. http://www.covercritics.com
I am sure that if you admit defeat Mam Panther and ask nicely for Nathan’s help that he could, with the help of your daughters (who would learn a lot about how to design and could actually help them in a future career) and the rest of us with our non snarky hats on, could make this cover something just as special as you wanted it to be in the first place.
For example, that screened purple place over the artwork with your name on it, it is muddying up the artwork! Take that off and move your name below it and the artwork will instantly look nicer!
So, the question of the day… Will you accept our help, or will you just keep thinking all these potential Angels are just bullies? (See what I did there)
So as the author of the novel, I’ve been watching this site and the comments daily. “Waffles” thank you so much for your input! I think one of the areas that bugged me the most is that the comments about the cover came in without any “real” advice for improvement. As an educator, I give a ton of feedback to my students all of the time to help them grow and become better writers and students. I don’t sit there and just slam all of the negative aspects of their writing – I accentuate the positive aspects and provide the tools needed to improve.
I can see both sides of the argument here. I self-published the novel because A) it’s a timely subject that needs told to our students and B) I’m the most impatient person on this planet. I couldn’t wait any longer for an agent to pick up my work, shop it to publishing houses, and eventually get it out in the marketplace. Right now the market wants more of the Twilight, Hunger Games, Divergent, etc style of novel so my concept does not fit into what is making the most money right now.
A lot of the aspects of this cover were MY fault and not my two former students. They only designed the angel for the cover. The layout, color of the cover, text size/style, etc came from me and CreateSpace’s cover creator. Their creator is worse than a WISYWIG editor for a website. I could not change the font size or location because it was a template design. At the time this cover was created, I didn’t have any more funds to put into the design. I had already spent more than my budget into a professional editor (copy and line). I had asked the girls to complete the design because A) my original designer (a well known artist) got booked doing another project for some galleries in NY City and B) I couldn’t afford anything else.
These two girls completed the design (after reading the novel) in about two weeks. Again, I was impatient and couldn’t wait to get something done. My teaching and graduate school schedule was so hectic that I didn’t have time to wait – if I did the novel would have never been published.
I am all for help and “constructive” criticism. As for some of the other comments made, let it go and move on. We know the cover is not the greatest. Now you know some of the additional factors behind the scenes. At this time I am working with a professional designer to update the cover design – I’ve saved up funds to do this.
AS Waffles said, here is not the place for constructive criticism. That criticism should have happened BEFORE you hit the publish button. As happens on http://covercritics.com/, a site from the same author, and where most of the commenters here also participate.
You’ll soon realize that the tone of the comments is not the same. Because asking for help is respected there, but asking costumers to not laugh at a really silly cover that’s supposed to represent the level of quality of your work and asking quite a bit of money for is not.
As for the Create Space cover designer… That’s not your only free option. With a couple hours of watching Youtube videos, you (or those kids) could have learned to use free softwares like GIMP or Inkscape and come up with a better design.
But if you could not see why this cover was a bad idea, maybe that’s lost advice. Because if this represents in any way your views on cover designs, and marketing, you have a long lonely road ahead of you. Kowing the additional factors behind the scene of this cover is in no way helping its case, btw.
I seriously think that your original cover artist saw what you had in mind and just decided it was not something he or she wanted to be associated with. Especially if you couldn’t pay for the services.
Kuddos for hiring a new designer, though. However, you really should have waited before hitting the publish button. Because when you did that? Hunting season opened. And we’re enjoying the hell out of it.
And I would advise you lower the price of your book. Way too high for a first release by an unkown author. And please change your author picture… it’s creepy, especially if you target YA readers. (And yes I can critique it, you put it out there.) And oh look at that, the only review is from your friend Mam1087/Panther…
Hi Lucie – thank you so much for your comments and critique. I will take your information into consideration as I move forward in this process. Please note that some of your “jabs” are a bit hurtful, but I will move past them.
Also, please note that “to not laugh” is considered a split infinitive. I hope that I can help you in the future with any writing needs.
I do happen to like split infinitives. But thank you, I’m a proofreader for a number of american authors and I’m always happy to discuss the rules of english, my second language.
Hi Lucie – that’s amazing that you are a proofreader and English is your second language. I find it fascinating when I teach students how to learn the English language as a reading specialist. Anyways, do you know how to get the price down below the reserve set point? I’m finding it very difficult to lower the price of the books from your suggestion earlier because both CreateSpace and KDP are telling me that I cannot go any lower.
I’ve always loved books and the english language. That’s why I invest so much time and energy into indie publishing, even if I’m not a writer. But, as every passionate supporter of indie publishing could tell you, it will only succeed if we keep the standards as high, or even higher, than those of trad pub.
If you need more help, you could join the Digital Publishing Community on Google+. Please read the guidelines before posting though: they’re pretty strict about self-promo and link littering (FYI I’m one of the moderators and you’ve seen how mean I can be.:)) But they’re very helpful regarding every aspect of the trade. KDP is not a subject I specialize in, but some of the people there are very knowledgeable about it. And always happy to share.
Dan – the most common and worst mistake self-publishers make is to rush a sub-standard product to publication. You admitted to doing so, and I respect that.
The thing is, first impressions COUNT. People DO judge a book by its cover, and if the cover looks like a joke, the natural assumption is that the content is amateur as well.
Recovering from such a mistake takes three times the effort as simply waiting, finding a decent cover artist, and paying the $75 for an ebook cover (or $125 for a full flat).
Furthermore, the bright and childish drawing you commissioned is NOT reminiscent of any of the works you are trying to ride the waves of (Twilight, Hunger Games, Divergent). No one who sees this cover would EVER make the connection, so you did all this rushing for nothing.
Lastly, at only 150 pages, this book should not be priced higher than $2.99. If you expect people to look past the cover (as you clearly do) I would suggest 99-cents. That way, you might get actual readers who post actual reviews.
Hi Kris – thank you so much for the information. I was able to get the price down to $2.99 for the Kindle version and that’s the lowest KDP will allow me to go. I’m not sure if it’s because of the KDP Select option or something else.
My new cover artist seems to be very good and reputable. Her prices are a little higher than what you have suggested.
I’m not trying to ride the coattails of the other books, I just mentioned them because that’s essentially where the market is right now with YA fiction. My novel and concept is still the coming-of-age story and not too many teens want to read it. Primarily, the concept came about because I was sick of teaching garbage “bullying” books in my classroom. Even my students hated the books because they did not show what bullying is really like in middle and high school.
Anyways, thank you so much for the information. I wish I would’ve known about this site and the other one prior to publishing. Yet, the best way to learn is by failing. I did it as an engineer for 13 years and as an educator for the past 7 years.
You have to change the royalties percentage from 70% to 30% to be able to set a price lower than $2.99. Your cut will be smaller, but the chance to sell more copies will be higher. 70% of 0 is still 0.
Also, not many people that publish on Amazon know that Amazon pushes always the newest publications first in searches, or in the “people who bought this also bought” and similar sections and promotion spaces, which means that your novel gets the most exposure in the first three months it’s been published. By releasing your book before it was ready, you have wasted that three month window in which your novel had the greatest chance for success. The only way you can get it back into the spotlight now is by publishing another book.
Congrats on taking the self-publishing route, you did the right thing. Just keep in mind it’s also a field that requires a lot of learning and mastering, since now you’re not just a writer and an author, you’re also a publisher, an editor (even if you hire someone else to do it, you’re still responsible for the final outcome), marketing, bookkeeping… In short, you’re a businessman now, and you need to act like one. Luckily, there are a lot of books, blogs, forums, groups and whatnot that could help you with it. Someone suggested some group earlier, might be a good place to start.
Hi Catie – thank you so much for the information and advice. I just changed the Kindle option to knock the price down. I did join the group Lucie suggested earlier and I’m working on gaining some advice needed to advance.
I am working on the second book right now which is a sequel to this first novel.
That’s good to hear, all of it. If you ask successful indie authors out there, they’ll tell you that nothing sells your book better than the next book (and even better if they’re a series).
I do hope you keep the idea behind this cover. It’s a good concept, it only needs a bit more experienced execution. And it’s not just the artwork, that’s only half the job. The choice of font (you don’t use the same types for romance as for thrillers, for example), the placement, the size (as someone already mentioned, it needs to be readable at thumbnail size), color scheme… There are so many things to pay attention to when designing a cover. It’s practically a science.
Waffles I think only one of my daughters will be moving in the direction of becoming an artist my other is planning on becoming a neonatal physician.
As far as this cover goes I would agree that it can be better and if give more time it may have been better but as Dan explained it was rushed. I still feel that both girls have made a huge accomplishment.
Besides there are many best selling authors that to this day that have book covers worse than this, the Great Gasby is one just to mention
I wish them both all the luck possible in their careers.
Time constraints can be tough, as can clients that think they know better. All of my worst design work is due to that.
That is where I stop agreeing with you. The Great Gatsby is not a bad cover. The Great Gatsby is the cover that has been copied countless times by people that do not know what they are doing. It started the floating eyeball crazy, but because of that when you look at it all you see is the bastard spawn of its legacy.
Thanks Kris – I’m just trying to navigate through this whole writing and publishing realm. It doesn’t help me as a writer to argue against others on my product. From the good comments that I’ve received on Goodreads, I know that my content is done well. I just need to get my cover to match the inside so people do take the novel and its contents seriously.
Besides, my whole initial perception about cover art is changing because of you and the others on this site. When I shop for books, I never pay attention to the front cover art/design. I could care less as a consumer (my own personal opinion). I am more concerned with the back of the book and synopsis – the main force behind my decision to purchase, or not, a specific work. I had “originally” thought most people were like me. Here again, like the cover decisions I’ve made, I AM wrong.
Thank you for your comments and I hope things continue to move forward.
Dan – wherever you live, there are probably organized groups of legitimate authors for you to plug into. Genre aside, good writing is good writing, and good publishing is good publishing. These authors can steer you in the right direction on issues like cover design, pricing, promotion, etc.
Yes, things happen and at least you are making a change. That might even prove that this site can in fact do some good, because if you were not redesigning this cover before now, you certainly are now. Better covers make for better sales, and it is in your best interest. Kudos for realizing that fact and handling it better than… others.
I do sincerely hope your redesign ends up here, but in the section that Nathan does with the ‘look at how much better these ones are now’! 🙂
Rest assured we will watch for your new cover like hawks watching a tennis match between an entire family of well dressed field mice and Keanu Reeves in a women’s trench-coat, because honestly who wouldn’t watch that?
That was some tough love Dan got from us. But he’s dealing with it elegantly. Good luck, sir!
panther
9 years ago
I put this out there for mam my email is panterapaca@gmail what is yours if able i suggest pics as well since this gormless person wants to say that we are the same person
Wooooo, don’t share your email address publicly like that. Spam will rain on you like wrath of heaven.
Kris
9 years ago
Mam has tromped on my last nerve with the “Mexican” comment. I’m done talking to that brick.
Suzie
9 years ago
If anyone thinks this is bullying then I would hate for them to meet the GR trolls or the Amazon Flora trolls. They bully for the thrill of it. They enjoy trying to make people feel small. This site is not bullying. After something is posted whether a comment, pamphlet, book, whatever it is out for public knowledge and anyone can comment. When it comes to publishing a book most people really do judge it by the cover. Sad but true. If the cover is not appealing then they will not even scroll down to read the description. Just because you personally do not look at covers does not mean everyone is like that. Covers are suppose to grab peoples attention, tell an overview of the store and make readers want to learn more, to click the buy button. When marketing you have to think about who will purchase and how they might purchase something. Not how you purchase something. Again, sadly a big difference. Sometimes bright and colorful works sometimes it doesn’t. It all depends on the buyer. When marketing you cannot think about your buying habits, you have to think about the buying habits of the reading public.
Thank you for the information. You have to remember that I am, for a lack of a better term so I will use my old engineering references, very “green.” I know absolutely very minimal amount of knowledge as it pertains to marketing. As I have mentioned (many times throughout these past 48+ hours), I did not know many of the concepts presented, this site, covercritics.com, other sties, etc. I understand the issues surrounding my cover choices and I am working now to correct those issues.
I need to learn more on this other end of being an author – I accept that and I will try harder.
Catie
9 years ago
I know I’m beating a dead horse by now, but still…
This is a pencil portrait of my sister: http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/187/e/2/di43wm_by_cataclysm_x-d6c8kd8.jpg
This is the kind of quality the art needs to be to get on a book cover. Usually pencil, colored pencil or markers are a bad choice for a book cover, because in the art world, and probably beyond, they’re considered an amateurish medium, used by children – unless the art in question is this good. Not saying I’d use it for an actual cover – a cover would probably need to be a bit more interesting – but I am saying it’s good enough to be on a book cover. This is how good it needs to be.
Now, if anyone were to comment on the nose or the chin of this drawing, I would get offended, because in this case, I would know it’s not a remark on the quality of the drawing but the face that is drawn, because the quality of the drawing itself is beyond reproach. The likeness in the drawing is made to perfection. This IS my sister, this IS her face, just as good as any photograph could capture her. The likeness of the cover above, however, is not this good, and taking offense at anything said about the drawing as if it was said about the model’s actual face is downright silly.
The author of the drawing is now 26 years old, I think, but she wasn’t much worse than this in high school: http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs4/i/2004/257/7/1/Brad_Pitt_by_Cataclysm_X.jpg
THIS is talent. Not saying you can’t be this good with a lot less talent and a whole lot of practice. Talent only gets you so far, without practice it’s nothing.
Hope I haven’t hurt anyone’s feelings with this, but this is how things are.
Thank you Catie. You beat that dead horse! Beat it to prevent zombie horses rising from the grave. We are behind you. Your post is exactly the entire point of the entire Mam section of the argument, sketched beautifully in pencil.
**It’s okay Dan, we like you know, so you don’t need to defend or explain anything else. 😉 This is for your supporter who is honestly doing your work more harm than good.**
Mam,
The link here shows artwork worthy of a cover. This is ultra realistic, but that doesn’t mean that other styles of art such as any cartoon style isn’t allowed on a cover.
The Manga style of art (because Anime is animated as you found out when you Googled Anime earlier) is certainly allowed on a book cover. It still needs to be good Manga though. If People saw a good Manga cover, they instantly would think that it was Manga book and it would defeat the book just as bad as this cover. It just doesn’t fit!
Dan has already said that your daughters were rushed, that they hadn’t worked in this medium before, that the original sketch was much better, and that he altered it a little in the cover design program. There is no blaming them anymore for this.
He has forgiven your daughters for this cover.
We have forgiven your daughters for this cover.
Why can’t you forgive your daughters for this cover?
It is well said and I agree with many of the points, but as I mentioned in another post up top to Aoxotl, the comments are hurting the two teens that designed the angel and they shouldn’t. These two amazing young women did what I asked as the author. Again, we should NOT, as adults, take blame and punishment out on two teenagers who were only following a former teacher they love and respect. We know the art is not the best and was not the best decision to make for this cover. But the blame come to ME. I’m sick to my stomach each night because I made a poor decision involving these two young women in this process. They really do not deserve disrespect or criticism because they listened to an adult. It’s like saying, “Well Kris I’m going to have to lock up your two kids for shoplifting even though I know and got it on tape that you encouraged them to take the can of soup.” (Okay pardon my overdramatic example) But can you see my point in this issue?
Dan – PLEASE stop beating yourself up!!! NO ONE on this thread blames you.
It’s Mam herself who keep stirring the pot. She wants us to agree with her comments and we cannot. She is flat-out wrong about everything she posted: the drawing doesn’t look like her daughter’s actual face, there is no “bullying” of her daughters, she clearly doesn’t know what anime is, and she was wrong to pull the race card into this, making unkind remarks about Mexican noses!
Let it go. Go out to dinner and have a glass of wine. Take all the good advice you learned from this post – and now stop checking in. Go forth and prosper. 😉
How do you know that it does not look like my daughter, u don’t I’m not arguing with u but it’s the truth dan and I are the only ones that know except for Nathan which I messaged him privately with the side by side view of the cover and her picture.
With all that is said I have decided that since I am defending my daughters that I am willing to share other things they have done I am creating a Facebook page specifically for u to take a look at what they have done and to critique them. All I ask is to keep any hurtful comments out. Give them advice tell what u think they can do better I will even have the side by side views of this cover and my daughters photo along with the original pencil draw. And u can give them the advice on what u think the could have done better. I do ask that you do not mention this site though because it would be detrimental to my youngest daughter
I do not have to forgive my daughters for anything they did as they where asked I even told Dan that it could be better if they had more time but that besides the point. He was pleased with it and I said ok….
At any rate like I said earlier I have created a group on facebook I have put different drawings on their of theirs some of them good some horrible but it shows their growth.
Since my eldest daughter Tyla will be graduating next year from high school and perusing a career in art I feel your critiques would be beneficial to her.
My youngest daughter uses art as a coping skill, one that has benefited her in over coming her suicide attempts to being bullied.
I would just ask that you keep that in mind if you go to the page and critique them. They are up for your honest opinions but keep in mind they are still impressional young adults and to be compassionate about it. Let them know what they could do to improve their work.
Again there are two projects that they are currently working on for a grade so right now they are excited for any feed back you may have.
Mam 1087
9 years ago
Ok I have the Facebook page set up you are all welcome to look critique, but also give advice on how they can improve themselves I did let my daughter know I was creating this page and they are excited to hear what professionals have to say on improving their work and how. I have posted their failed drawings from when they where younger as well as current just to show their improvement but to also have younger children interested in art to also post their pictures as well for your advice as professionals to them.
If you have facebook the group page is simply name “Young Artist”
I have used the book cover as the group photo so you could find it easily.
Tyla and Nicarra both have projects they are currently working on for their drawing classes posted on there to see what advice you would have for them.
And just for a final coda to this thread: I’ve got three more comments in moderation for two more supporters of Mam 1087 — two more supporters who, oddly enough, have the same IP address as Mam herself. The fact that this tiger mom appears to think that sockpuppeting is the way to win an argument is just sad, sad, sad. And with that, I’ll close comments on this post.
![cover[1]](https://lousybookcovers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/cover145.jpg)
I don’t get it. A huge flower and a blue wrought-iron chair? And the teensy font for the title; how about looking at a thumbnail image before publishing… Just a thought.
I like her look for some reason, but that was quickly offset by whatever she’s holding. Does this “angel” (?) have butterfly wings?
The flower is the only friend the bullies allowed her to have.
Perhaps she only bullies because she has a pig snout and hair hanging over her eyes?
And no torso below the chest.
The girl image has some nice elements in it. It could probably be developed into something quite nice–but WTF is up with her chin?!? It’s like Celine Dion after botched surgery.
I think someone was doodling in her notebook during class. Again. What do you have to say for yourself, Missy?!!
not a thing
The girl in this drawing is a real girl my daughter…. I am the mother of the two girls that designed this cover. The drawing is to capture the innocence of a young girl in the form of an angel. The girls who drew the picture did not want to sexualize it either so that the innocence of the angel was kept. The wings are tribal angel wings, not a rod iron chair, but the way that it is positioned withing the book would be hard to tell. The flower is a hibiscus flower that represents the friendship between five girls within the book and how there friendship with one another was broken and rebuilt again. This picture also represents a memorial at the end of the novel where an angel is holding the hibiscus flower after a death of one of the key characters in this novel. By the way this is an actual picture younger daughter face so the insulting comments are pretty hurtful to see after her ordeal in her young teenage years also this book is a fictional telling of her story of being bullied and attempting to commit suicide. Though you have a right to your opinion of this cover I believe what just happened here is an accurate representation to the title of this novel. That my daughter is the angel and you are the bullies. Even though unintentional you still indirectly bullied a young teenage girl that has lived through at torturous or deal and is still fighting to over come it.
Ah, yes, the “B” word again: If we don’t love your daughter’s drawing, we’re bullies! Also, the terrorists will have won!
Ma’am, if this artwork were hanging on your refrigerator, we wouldn’t break into your home and make snide remarks. But you PUBLISHED this, for all the world to see. By doing so, you are in effect declaring that it is in level competition with the professional publications beside which it is offered for sale. It is NOT. If you don’t wish to subject your children to the fact that other people might have negative opinions of their amateur work, DON’T PUBLISH THEM FOR ALL THE WORLD TO SEE.
This could have been a learning experience for your daughters. If you put something out there for the world to see, there is going to be criticism. Not everyone is going to like what they do, and if they are too fragile to handle that, then you shouldn’t allow them to create something that will be on the internet where people will have opinions, some of which are not favorable. You could be teaching them that lesson instead of whining about bullying when you don’t seem to have a clue what true bullying is.
Tia as a medical professional I do know what bullying is. There are several types just as with many illnesses. This is specifically why I said it was unintentional. My issue is not with the comments of the cover but the rude comments to the angel’s face because that is my daughter’s actual face, only it’s animated. If someone made rude comments about your appearance would you not consider that was bullying.
as a medical professional I do know what bullying is
Yes, and as a gourmet chef I know what a fan belt is. Seriously, WTF? If “bullying” a medical condition now?
that is my daughter’s actual face, only it’s animated
a) No, it’s not “animated.” If it were, you would see it moving. That’s what “animated” means. Don’t you know that as a medical professional?
b) So your daughter has asymmetrical nostrils and a huge angle on the left side of her chin? Poor girl.
Mam – Bullying is intentionally hurting someone you are acquainted with. Saying the drawing of the face is bad has nothing to do with “bullying” because no one knows your daughter or the child who drew this cartoon version of her.
Can you grasp the difference?
auto correct is a bitch on a iphone…. anime is the word I wanted my bad…. and my daughter is a beautiful girl but hey say what you want.
B. yes bullying is a medical condition
1. causes alter mental status change in the person being bullied, other diagnosis given PTSS, cluster b behavior traits, self harming behaviors, suicidal idiology, and suicide. Which are all medical conditions that have resulted in young adults being bullied.
2. On he side of the person who is the bullier, and this DOES NOT apply to all, there is emotion behavior disorders.
I think you may need to Google Anime before making that claim.
You would be hard pressed to find a character in Anime that even had visible nostrils. Actual lips are even a stretch in the art style.
I am sorry to tell you, but this is not Anime.
Kris I can grasp the difference I meant unintentional again I apologize, for my spelling errors I spend to much time deciphering doctors hand writing and have forgotten how to spell 99.9% of the time. Also I do understand that no one here knows who she is. But as her mother my first instinct is to protect. I don’t truly care about 90% of the comments on here I just the comment to her face that I have reacted to. Two years ago I had a beautiful confident 13 year girl change drastically in a matter of months she lost all confidence and self worth attempt to kill herself on several occasions because of comments like this but also as well as to people in her face bullying her directly. So if anything else can you understand where I am coming from in all this?
But I have also agreed that this could have been allot better. The original hand drawing is better than this, when Nicarra took it from a hand drawn picture her sister and she drew, and transposed it over to a computer drawing it lost allot of the detail and quality of the original. I completely agree with that. But I give these girls allot of credit for what they have accomplished, without help or guidance or knowing all the things that the professionals do. and Linnea I hope this answers your question to me too. Its not about the drawing itself.
Mam – It boils down to this: Your daughter may be beautiful, but the drawing is not. And that was the point of every comment.
You took the discussion where it never needed to go. You are the one who created the chaos.
Ohh, a medical professional! The woman who takes my payment and tells me to sit in the waiting room until the doctor calls me considers herself a “medical professional” so sorry but I’m not terribly impressed. You keep stroking your own ego though, sunshine. You still don’t know what bully is. No one made a comment about your daughter’s appearance. Comments were made regarding a drawing that apparently was supposed to be your daughter’s face. If you can’t tell the difference between “The drawing looks like she has a pig snout” and “Your nose looks like a pig snout” then there is no hope for you.
And to answer your question no, someone making a rude comment about a DRAWING of me would not be bullying. It would be an opinion about the DRAWING.
If this is what you meant the cover to mean, look into hiring someone who can illustrate to get across the meaning better. Perhaps look at DeviantArt and other places like this where people go to showcase their work and can be hired. Because it doesn’t look like any of those things you just wrote. It looks like an amateurish drawing of someone with a pigsnout and hair in their face sitting on a wrought iron chair, having just blown something horrible out of their nose into a soggy magenta tissue. The cover you have chosen to use does nothing to entice your target market to buy it.
Axolotl –
Thank you so much for the information. I had no clue about the DeviantArt website. I will definitely keep it in mind for future projects. I have hired a professional designer who is now in the process of redesigning the cover for this novel. She is targeting the end of the month for completion.
As for the meaning on the cover, I’m actually tickled pink with what the girls did. Even though this design doesn’t look the greatest, their first initial pencil sketch looked very good. The transition into a new medium (especially for them since they do not normally work in a media other than pencil, chalk, paint, etc) was okay. Could they have done better – ABSOLUTELY! Again, it was MY fault for being impatient and rushing their design. As for the other issues, please see my commentary below – again MY fault. The other reason why I AM happy with the design is because BOTH girls actually retained and applied knowledge they obtained from my classroom 3+ years after having me as their full time language arts teacher. They took elements from the story (themes, symbols, etc) to design the angel. So from my “teacher” perspective, it was SPOT ON.
I am glad to read the cover is being redesigned and the book will be republished with a better cover. Probably better for the children who did the illustration as well, as I imagine when they are older it might be looked back upon as a bit of an embarrassment.
Axolotl –
Why embarrassment? I’ve looked back on a number of things in my past (writing, websites, engineering, teaching, etc) and have not been embarrassed by my short-comings. I am certainly not embarrassed by this cover because I know the meaning involved in it and the story it represents. What I think you need to understand is that this is a learning experience and process for all of us. I never look back on things in my past and say, “Oh, I am so embarrassed that I did that.” I look back and say, “Wow, look at where I am today because I did that.” The way you have it worded makes it appear heartless for the kids. Never mind all that has transpired between others on this site – it’s water under the bridge. The positive tone is what will determine the future for someone. For example, I have an uncle that is probably the meanest “B@%^!*#” on this planet. All throughout my life, and even today, he continually tells me that “I’m worthless,” “I’ll never make it in any profession (art, engineering, teaching, writing novels, etc),” etc. I GAVE UP my dream of becoming an animator or imagineer for Disney because he, too, had similar comments such as yours. He told me that my art was crap and that everything that I’ve done is an embarrassment on the family and myself. Even when I won awards and sold artwork he said the same things and told me I was “lucky.” So you see I have a soft spot for these two girls. Don’t kill their dreams saying that they may look back upon this experience as an embarrassment. It wasn’t. It was a test to see how they can overcome and move forward in the future. As adults we can handle criticism (to a point), but teenagers still have not developed the reasoning centers of their brains (true fact – I’d give you the link to the research if I had more time) which makes comments such as yours detrimental to their mental health (also proven I have it in my special education textbooks right now).
When I was a child, I used to draw pictures, and my mother told me they sucked. Now I am an adult, when I look at the pictures I used to draw (the ones my mother didn’t burn) I can see she was right. I am glad they did not escape into the public domain with my legal name attached to them, where they might show up on Internet searches should I apply for a job, or other situations where people might look up a person. I would suggest to any child wanting to publish something (especially as it is now so easy to get stuff out there) that they wait a bit and see what their opinion is of what they have produced when they are older, and are capable of much better. This website quite clearly demonstrates that In Public is a wild and brutal place where people will express opinions on things, and what would have been a harmless child’s illustration to stick on a fridge door and enjoyed by family in the normal course of things becomes the subject of jokes and criticism. Whilst it might be perfectly artistically adequate for someone of such age, it isn’t up to the standard expected for the cover of a published book. And it surely isn’t good for a young person’s mental health to have their childish art upheld to that sort of mature scrutiny.
Axolotl –
Again, I understand where you are coming from, but the whole RESPONSIBILITY rests with ME the author who took the work and used it for the cover. If it weren’t for me, this work would NOT be out in the public domain (as you have illustrated in many different ways). But my question is do you punish the teenager who had no inclination or do you punish the adult who should’ve known better. Logic, common sense, and just a plain sense of good moral character places the blame on the adult (ME) who should’ve known better.
Again, this is a learning experience for all of us and cutting teenagers down for just following the lead of an adult that they trust is not fair to THEM. We, as adults and a competent moral society, should uplift them, encourage them, and help them succeed. Why? Because that is what we are supposed to do as adults.
As for the job issue in the future, I’ve hired and fired more people than I care to remember in my life. I can see your point, but it’s more detrimental to have out something immoral than it is for a cover design gone amuck. Even if the teens do apply for a design or artistic job in the future, I highly doubt this one cover would remove them from the job. Especially if the job is high demand and they have improved their portfolios by that time. Even still, they can always say to the hiring manager that, “I made that when I was fifteen-years-old.” I’m sure it would turn out as a great conversation or icebreaker for both.
As I have stated, restated, and continue to argue – the whole issue is MY fault so let’s move forward, help the teens to focus on their dreams, and not become adults that chastise and destroy the hopes of our children. We already have too much of it in our society and it leads to some dark places (suicide, depression, cutting, aggression, school shootings, etc).
well, heck she half Mexican you can blame her nose on her dad and the picture of her self that she used to draw her face I think she was flaring out her nostril a bit more than usual… and i did agreed with you about the wings a good percentage of them where cut out on the layout. I would also give you the tissue part too. But you should see the damn hibiscus flowers in my garden the dam thing is huge and when her older sister drew that she took a picture of her younger sister holding it and that is how it looked. So it is what it is. And they are amateurs, still in high school. Not denying that either. Again it is what it is.
My husband is half Mexican and I find your “blame” offensive.
And no one doubts the size of your flowers. It was the POOR JOB of drawing them that is the subject of this entire thread.
Try to focus.
What does her dad being Mexican have to do with her not being able to draw a decent face? Could she not look in a mirror to see what her own face looks like?
Tia –
As I requested below in another post, please take out your frustrations and commentary about the cover on ME, the author, who decided to use the image created along with other poor choices. The “original” sketch done by the girls is very good for that age level. I remember being in two competitive art programs at that age when I attended high school and I still did not have the same amount of talent as these two girls. Going back and forth on this issue is not worth it.
Again, I made the decisions for this cover and I ALONE should take RESPONSIBILITY. Please do not continue to drag this out on what a couple of high school girls created in a medium that they had no prior experience working with before doing this work.
The very fact that you need to explain what is in the picture is proof that the picture is not doing its job. A good picture needs to speak for itself, if it needs an interpreter or a defender, that is a clear sign there’s something wrong with it.
For example, if I were to draw a circle on a blank piece of paper, what would you see? You’d see a circle. I could go on and on explaining how the circle represents the vastness of the universe, the sanctity of life, the connectedness of all things and who knows what else, but it would still be just a circle on a blank piece of paper. I could claim it’s a flower, it would still be just a circle on a blank piece of paper. The only way it would be a flower if I drew an actual flower. Now, you can go about the internet and track down all the people that have seen the cover and explain to them that it’s not a rod iron chair but angel wings, or you and your daughters can use it as an opportunity to learn, and the next time she draws wings she can make sure other people can clearly see they are wings. The way to stop people from saying it’s a rod iron chair is not to call them bullies, but to make the wings not look like a rod iron chair. It’s as simple as that. The better your work is, the less things people will find to complain about. If there are lots of things people complain about, your work is not good enough, period. If your work has lots of mistakes in it, you are practically giving people the ammunition to come after you. It’s like wearing a clown suit to school and then complain that people are laughing at you. If you want people to stop laughing, stop wearing a clown suit, don’t yell at them and call them bullies. Make your work beyond reproach, and you will not be reproached. It’s as simple as that.
Catie –
Actually the rod iron chair issue is MY fault again. When I put the image the girls created into the template from CreateSpace, it did not give me much play in manipulation. I could not shrink the image size down far enough in order to get the remainder of the angel wings into the circle. Again, because of my lack in skill, impatience, and ignorance, I went with what I could accomplish on my own. It didn’t work. If you do get the chance to see the original cover art, which I believe I have on my website in the rotating picture viewer, you would see the complete concept of the tribal style wings. Here again, my request for the tribal art (sorry something I like because of my Native American heritage) caused more issues over letting the wings just look like normal wings.
In addition, this is for you and any additional posters on this site, please take out any frustrations and commentary on ME. I, being naïve, did not consider the implications of using their work in this way. I certainly did not consider how negative commentary could hurt them; therefore, damaging everything that I swore as a teacher to protect. So, please, take it out on the guy who actually designed the cover and not just one piece that was put together in a medium that is unfamiliar to the original artists.
It’s not frustration, sorry if it sounded that way. The point of my post, which I haven’t really made clear, is that you can either complain about it, or use this as a learning experience. It’s what I myself have learned over the years: you can argue with people who comment/critique/flame your work, or you can remove the source of the argument out of your work, which will in turn make it better. I found the second option to be much more productive.
We all make silly mistakes, whether from impatience, inexperience or naivete, it’s only human. But we should learn from them, not defend them. And, I think, despite the initial outbursts, you have all managed to learn something from this.
Hurt feelings aside, an honest comment, even a rude and callous one, is hundred times more helpful and useful than when a friend pats you on the back and tells you what a great job you’ve done, when in reality he feels completely the opposite. What happened here was perhaps hard, emotionally, but it’s a good thing. An honest comment is often hard to come by, and should be used to improve ones work. It’s also not bullying for one simple reason: evening that was said, heartless as it might be, was truthful, and if the issues in question were corrected, no one would “bully” you any more. A real bully doesn’t need reasons and excuses, he would bully you just because he can, and no amount of changing or “correcting” the cause of bullying would make him stop.
Catie –
That’s fine. My issue right now is this site is about lousy book covers and not lousy art. Some of the commentary now being made is attacking the art produced by two amateur girls that I should have protected better. Granted the art “IS” a part of the cover and I understand that concept.
However, part of the issues surrounding the art come from MY decisions in the cover creator and other sources. For example, I forced the girls to utilize a form of art that they have never used before – an art program for the iPad. These girls usually compose their art in pencil, pen, chalk, or paint. The need to switch was because when we took an original version and an original version colored and scanned the images, we got too much pixilation with the transfer process. In addition, I pushed the girls to rush the digital creation causing additional issues in the process. When you add in my flubs with the cover design software online, you get what we have here.
This has been a truly rewarding and eye-opening experience for me as a self-published author. I have nothing but the utmost respect for all of the posters on this site because I took time to view your websites, blogs, and other materials to get a sense of your background. I want to learn and become better so that I can utilize my writing gifts to the greatest extent God has provided for me.
Again, in my mind, the commentary needs directed to ME the author and not the girls. They did the best they could with what they had and the minimal time to complete the project. If others cannot understand what or why I am asking this, then I really have no other way to explain it. It’s kind of like engineering. I spent years designing molds to make parts that probably shouldn’t have been designed or created in the first place. Yet when a part fails or a consumer forces a recall it doesn’t go back to the part designer – it goes back to the engineer who created the tool to produce the part. That engineer should’ve stopped and told the part designer that the part is not strong enough, has some issues with cosmetics, etc. I hope that this analogy makes some sense. Yes, the girl’s art may not be the best, but it was ME (the engineer) that didn’t stop the process for make the correct fix. I know that now and the new cover will make a difference.
oh but kind sir just because i allowed a work of art of my daughters combined efforts become published Does not mean I am or anyone else is saying that it as at any level of competition. In fact it is an accomplishment made by two young individuals that many others their age can not say they have made. It will look great on their college resumes for the future. The author wanted an original and an amateur not a professional and these girl took there imagination to one scene from the novel and deciphered it in to an original work of art. You are entitled to your opinions and I have stated that, with that I gave you the interpretation of the drawing and the meaning behind it. But as a mother when there is derogatory comment on her child’s personal image, she will defend which I have done. Like I said earlier everyone has a right to their opinion of the cover. But keep in mind there is a fine line to being a critic and a bully and not all bullying is intentional. Could have these girls done something better I know they could have but they liked the simplicity of this drawing and the simplicity of it make the picture itself beautiful. Could other things been done to make the cover stand out more I would agree but everyone starts somewhere.
And right about the point at which you say “not all bullying is intentional,” you prove that you use the word “bullying” to mean “an opinion I don’t like.” Your claim that publishing it to the world does not mean “that it is any level of competition” shows that you don’t understand what “publishing” means. And frankly, your use of just about all of the other words in your comment casts serious doubt upon your ability to form a cogent communication. You may now complain to all your friends and family how mean I am. Good day.
Ma’am, as a woman who was bullied her whole adolescent life, I’d have to say you don’t seem to understand what it’s about. While Nathan, and his commenters, can be rather rude, and I have seen them cross the lines at times, I don’t think it’s bullying.
Were this not your daughter’s work, would you still be angry? Or are you ruffling your feathers as a mama bear willing to defend your daughters till the end of the earth? I can tell you now you’re not doing them any favors attacking someone they’ve never met, whose never met them, and honestly doesn’t give a crap what you say. It’ll only teach them they don’t have to fight for themselves, that mama will give a harsh tongue whipping to anyone who hurts them. But guess what? The world is harsh and one day you won’t be there to protect them.
In any case, bullying is not happening here. Some of the comments are rude, but people have every right to their opinion, and every right to state it. Just because you dislike it doesn’t make it bullying. Just means people understand the concept of freedom of thought. Had you handed me this picture and told me the story, I would have complimented your daughters because it meant something PERSONAL to them. Once it’s on a cover that personal aspect disappears because it’s no longer about them. It’s the face of a novel, the face of an author, and it needs to be judged as so. Not judged as a young girl expressing her inner self, because a book cover is never about the artist.
I do agree that sometimes the commenters go too far, but there’s a difference between rude and bullying, and it’s one I don’t think you’ve quite grasped.
The critic had his feathers ruffled lmao
Btw publish is not the same as competition
As for the cover would I catch my eyes yes how couldn’t that bright purple do that the drawing is an interesting concept of an angel but the cover could have been more thought out to enhance the angel
Mam u made your argument clear props to standing up to a critic
Same email address. Seriously? You’re sock-puppeting to support yourself?
And yes, it is competition in the marketplace. By publishing your ebook and asking money for it, you are declaring that your book is worth people’s money. And if someone points out that certain key indicators, such as cover quality, are not indicative of such value, you get all high and might and start labeling people as bullies.
Doubly pathetic. Please stop embarrassing yourself — or if you must do it, please do it on your own site, not mine.
$5.99 for a book with 150 pages. A horrible cover I would be ashamed to publish. WOW! You call people bullies because we do not like what your child has created. Do everyone a favor and go back to hiding in your isolated little world. I would be ashamed to put this on a college resume and would not be surprised at any professor who laughs at the cover. I honestly think my rabbits create better art moving their morning salad around looking for the special treat.
My favourite part about this entire turn of events is that many of the original comments were about things that they liked about the cover and how to improve the other elements. Sarcasm was involved of course… but still.
One of the comments was about how the text size wouldn’t show up in a thumbnail. As your daughters are not professional designers, what an opportunity that would have been to grow and learn how to be a better designer. You could have looked at the thumbnail together and all noticed that was true and found a way to improve it together. To learn together.
There is actually a place specifically designed for constructive and helpful comments. http://www.covercritics.com
I am sure that if you admit defeat Mam Panther and ask nicely for Nathan’s help that he could, with the help of your daughters (who would learn a lot about how to design and could actually help them in a future career) and the rest of us with our non snarky hats on, could make this cover something just as special as you wanted it to be in the first place.
For example, that screened purple place over the artwork with your name on it, it is muddying up the artwork! Take that off and move your name below it and the artwork will instantly look nicer!
So, the question of the day… Will you accept our help, or will you just keep thinking all these potential Angels are just bullies? (See what I did there)
So as the author of the novel, I’ve been watching this site and the comments daily. “Waffles” thank you so much for your input! I think one of the areas that bugged me the most is that the comments about the cover came in without any “real” advice for improvement. As an educator, I give a ton of feedback to my students all of the time to help them grow and become better writers and students. I don’t sit there and just slam all of the negative aspects of their writing – I accentuate the positive aspects and provide the tools needed to improve.
I can see both sides of the argument here. I self-published the novel because A) it’s a timely subject that needs told to our students and B) I’m the most impatient person on this planet. I couldn’t wait any longer for an agent to pick up my work, shop it to publishing houses, and eventually get it out in the marketplace. Right now the market wants more of the Twilight, Hunger Games, Divergent, etc style of novel so my concept does not fit into what is making the most money right now.
A lot of the aspects of this cover were MY fault and not my two former students. They only designed the angel for the cover. The layout, color of the cover, text size/style, etc came from me and CreateSpace’s cover creator. Their creator is worse than a WISYWIG editor for a website. I could not change the font size or location because it was a template design. At the time this cover was created, I didn’t have any more funds to put into the design. I had already spent more than my budget into a professional editor (copy and line). I had asked the girls to complete the design because A) my original designer (a well known artist) got booked doing another project for some galleries in NY City and B) I couldn’t afford anything else.
These two girls completed the design (after reading the novel) in about two weeks. Again, I was impatient and couldn’t wait to get something done. My teaching and graduate school schedule was so hectic that I didn’t have time to wait – if I did the novel would have never been published.
I am all for help and “constructive” criticism. As for some of the other comments made, let it go and move on. We know the cover is not the greatest. Now you know some of the additional factors behind the scenes. At this time I am working with a professional designer to update the cover design – I’ve saved up funds to do this.
AS Waffles said, here is not the place for constructive criticism. That criticism should have happened BEFORE you hit the publish button. As happens on http://covercritics.com/, a site from the same author, and where most of the commenters here also participate.
You’ll soon realize that the tone of the comments is not the same. Because asking for help is respected there, but asking costumers to not laugh at a really silly cover that’s supposed to represent the level of quality of your work and asking quite a bit of money for is not.
As for the Create Space cover designer… That’s not your only free option. With a couple hours of watching Youtube videos, you (or those kids) could have learned to use free softwares like GIMP or Inkscape and come up with a better design.
But if you could not see why this cover was a bad idea, maybe that’s lost advice. Because if this represents in any way your views on cover designs, and marketing, you have a long lonely road ahead of you. Kowing the additional factors behind the scene of this cover is in no way helping its case, btw.
I seriously think that your original cover artist saw what you had in mind and just decided it was not something he or she wanted to be associated with. Especially if you couldn’t pay for the services.
Kuddos for hiring a new designer, though. However, you really should have waited before hitting the publish button. Because when you did that? Hunting season opened. And we’re enjoying the hell out of it.
And I would advise you lower the price of your book. Way too high for a first release by an unkown author. And please change your author picture… it’s creepy, especially if you target YA readers. (And yes I can critique it, you put it out there.) And oh look at that, the only review is from your friend Mam1087/Panther…
Hi Lucie – thank you so much for your comments and critique. I will take your information into consideration as I move forward in this process. Please note that some of your “jabs” are a bit hurtful, but I will move past them.
Also, please note that “to not laugh” is considered a split infinitive. I hope that I can help you in the future with any writing needs.
I do happen to like split infinitives. But thank you, I’m a proofreader for a number of american authors and I’m always happy to discuss the rules of english, my second language.
Hi Lucie – that’s amazing that you are a proofreader and English is your second language. I find it fascinating when I teach students how to learn the English language as a reading specialist. Anyways, do you know how to get the price down below the reserve set point? I’m finding it very difficult to lower the price of the books from your suggestion earlier because both CreateSpace and KDP are telling me that I cannot go any lower.
As always, thanks for the information!
I’ve always loved books and the english language. That’s why I invest so much time and energy into indie publishing, even if I’m not a writer. But, as every passionate supporter of indie publishing could tell you, it will only succeed if we keep the standards as high, or even higher, than those of trad pub.
If you need more help, you could join the Digital Publishing Community on Google+. Please read the guidelines before posting though: they’re pretty strict about self-promo and link littering (FYI I’m one of the moderators and you’ve seen how mean I can be.:)) But they’re very helpful regarding every aspect of the trade. KDP is not a subject I specialize in, but some of the people there are very knowledgeable about it. And always happy to share.
Lucie – very cool! I will definitely check it out. Thanks again for the information.
Dan – the most common and worst mistake self-publishers make is to rush a sub-standard product to publication. You admitted to doing so, and I respect that.
The thing is, first impressions COUNT. People DO judge a book by its cover, and if the cover looks like a joke, the natural assumption is that the content is amateur as well.
Recovering from such a mistake takes three times the effort as simply waiting, finding a decent cover artist, and paying the $75 for an ebook cover (or $125 for a full flat).
Furthermore, the bright and childish drawing you commissioned is NOT reminiscent of any of the works you are trying to ride the waves of (Twilight, Hunger Games, Divergent). No one who sees this cover would EVER make the connection, so you did all this rushing for nothing.
Lastly, at only 150 pages, this book should not be priced higher than $2.99. If you expect people to look past the cover (as you clearly do) I would suggest 99-cents. That way, you might get actual readers who post actual reviews.
I hope this is helpful.
Hi Kris – thank you so much for the information. I was able to get the price down to $2.99 for the Kindle version and that’s the lowest KDP will allow me to go. I’m not sure if it’s because of the KDP Select option or something else.
My new cover artist seems to be very good and reputable. Her prices are a little higher than what you have suggested.
I’m not trying to ride the coattails of the other books, I just mentioned them because that’s essentially where the market is right now with YA fiction. My novel and concept is still the coming-of-age story and not too many teens want to read it. Primarily, the concept came about because I was sick of teaching garbage “bullying” books in my classroom. Even my students hated the books because they did not show what bullying is really like in middle and high school.
Anyways, thank you so much for the information. I wish I would’ve known about this site and the other one prior to publishing. Yet, the best way to learn is by failing. I did it as an engineer for 13 years and as an educator for the past 7 years.
You have to change the royalties percentage from 70% to 30% to be able to set a price lower than $2.99. Your cut will be smaller, but the chance to sell more copies will be higher. 70% of 0 is still 0.
Also, not many people that publish on Amazon know that Amazon pushes always the newest publications first in searches, or in the “people who bought this also bought” and similar sections and promotion spaces, which means that your novel gets the most exposure in the first three months it’s been published. By releasing your book before it was ready, you have wasted that three month window in which your novel had the greatest chance for success. The only way you can get it back into the spotlight now is by publishing another book.
Congrats on taking the self-publishing route, you did the right thing. Just keep in mind it’s also a field that requires a lot of learning and mastering, since now you’re not just a writer and an author, you’re also a publisher, an editor (even if you hire someone else to do it, you’re still responsible for the final outcome), marketing, bookkeeping… In short, you’re a businessman now, and you need to act like one. Luckily, there are a lot of books, blogs, forums, groups and whatnot that could help you with it. Someone suggested some group earlier, might be a good place to start.
If you are serious about writing, and the fact you’re a teacher suggests you ought to be, you know that it’s a skill that takes years to perfect. Why should design be any different? Professional designers take years of schooling, studying and practice to hone their craft. The cover you and the two girls did might be sweet, but it’s an equivalent of teaching a kindergarten child how to write letters and then asking him to write a story which you then publish and ask money for. Which might also be sweet, but a random customer will not know who wrote the story, will not know or care about how the story came to be. He will assume it was an adult with no better way to spend his time but to troll the internet, or a halfwit with delusions of grandeur. And of course, that customer will leave a bad review, or a rude comment on a site such as this one. There are a lot of people out there that think writing a story is just a matter of opening a text editor, and the fact that they’ve never read a book in their life should not stop them from writing the next great American novel. Those people end up creating things like this. Please, don’t be one of those people that belittle the hard work professionals have to put into perfecting their craft by thinking anyone with a computer can do it. You wouldn’t let someone who just flipped through “Gray’s Anatomy” to operate on you, you wouldn’t let the kid next door fix the engine of your car just because he bought his first wrench yesterday, you wouldn’t let someone drive a concord just because they have a driver’s license for a car. So why do people think writing, drawing, designing, or publishing for that matter, is so different from all the other skills that they could be mastered in 5 minutes?
Hi Catie – thank you so much for the information and advice. I just changed the Kindle option to knock the price down. I did join the group Lucie suggested earlier and I’m working on gaining some advice needed to advance.
I am working on the second book right now which is a sequel to this first novel.
That’s good to hear, all of it. If you ask successful indie authors out there, they’ll tell you that nothing sells your book better than the next book (and even better if they’re a series).
I do hope you keep the idea behind this cover. It’s a good concept, it only needs a bit more experienced execution. And it’s not just the artwork, that’s only half the job. The choice of font (you don’t use the same types for romance as for thrillers, for example), the placement, the size (as someone already mentioned, it needs to be readable at thumbnail size), color scheme… There are so many things to pay attention to when designing a cover. It’s practically a science.
Waffles I think only one of my daughters will be moving in the direction of becoming an artist my other is planning on becoming a neonatal physician.
As far as this cover goes I would agree that it can be better and if give more time it may have been better but as Dan explained it was rushed. I still feel that both girls have made a huge accomplishment.
Besides there are many best selling authors that to this day that have book covers worse than this, the Great Gasby is one just to mention
I wish them both all the luck possible in their careers.
Time constraints can be tough, as can clients that think they know better. All of my worst design work is due to that.
That is where I stop agreeing with you. The Great Gatsby is not a bad cover. The Great Gatsby is the cover that has been copied countless times by people that do not know what they are doing. It started the floating eyeball crazy, but because of that when you look at it all you see is the bastard spawn of its legacy.
Waffles – again MY bad and fault – I did rush it because I was under a lot of pressure with my graduate courses, work, and family obligations.
Dan – you are handling this with humility and grace. I applaud you.
Thanks Kris – I’m just trying to navigate through this whole writing and publishing realm. It doesn’t help me as a writer to argue against others on my product. From the good comments that I’ve received on Goodreads, I know that my content is done well. I just need to get my cover to match the inside so people do take the novel and its contents seriously.
Besides, my whole initial perception about cover art is changing because of you and the others on this site. When I shop for books, I never pay attention to the front cover art/design. I could care less as a consumer (my own personal opinion). I am more concerned with the back of the book and synopsis – the main force behind my decision to purchase, or not, a specific work. I had “originally” thought most people were like me. Here again, like the cover decisions I’ve made, I AM wrong.
Thank you for your comments and I hope things continue to move forward.
Dan – wherever you live, there are probably organized groups of legitimate authors for you to plug into. Genre aside, good writing is good writing, and good publishing is good publishing. These authors can steer you in the right direction on issues like cover design, pricing, promotion, etc.
Yes, things happen and at least you are making a change. That might even prove that this site can in fact do some good, because if you were not redesigning this cover before now, you certainly are now. Better covers make for better sales, and it is in your best interest. Kudos for realizing that fact and handling it better than… others.
I do sincerely hope your redesign ends up here, but in the section that Nathan does with the ‘look at how much better these ones are now’! 🙂
Rest assured we will watch for your new cover like hawks watching a tennis match between an entire family of well dressed field mice and Keanu Reeves in a women’s trench-coat, because honestly who wouldn’t watch that?
That was some tough love Dan got from us. But he’s dealing with it elegantly. Good luck, sir!
I put this out there for mam my email is panterapaca@gmail what is yours if able i suggest pics as well since this gormless person wants to say that we are the same person
I will say it is similar but not the same but really who cares. Let them think what they want
Wooooo, don’t share your email address publicly like that. Spam will rain on you like wrath of heaven.
Mam has tromped on my last nerve with the “Mexican” comment. I’m done talking to that brick.
If anyone thinks this is bullying then I would hate for them to meet the GR trolls or the Amazon Flora trolls. They bully for the thrill of it. They enjoy trying to make people feel small. This site is not bullying. After something is posted whether a comment, pamphlet, book, whatever it is out for public knowledge and anyone can comment. When it comes to publishing a book most people really do judge it by the cover. Sad but true. If the cover is not appealing then they will not even scroll down to read the description. Just because you personally do not look at covers does not mean everyone is like that. Covers are suppose to grab peoples attention, tell an overview of the store and make readers want to learn more, to click the buy button. When marketing you have to think about who will purchase and how they might purchase something. Not how you purchase something. Again, sadly a big difference. Sometimes bright and colorful works sometimes it doesn’t. It all depends on the buyer. When marketing you cannot think about your buying habits, you have to think about the buying habits of the reading public.
Suzie –
Thank you for the information. You have to remember that I am, for a lack of a better term so I will use my old engineering references, very “green.” I know absolutely very minimal amount of knowledge as it pertains to marketing. As I have mentioned (many times throughout these past 48+ hours), I did not know many of the concepts presented, this site, covercritics.com, other sties, etc. I understand the issues surrounding my cover choices and I am working now to correct those issues.
I need to learn more on this other end of being an author – I accept that and I will try harder.
I know I’m beating a dead horse by now, but still…
This is a pencil portrait of my sister:
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/187/e/2/di43wm_by_cataclysm_x-d6c8kd8.jpg
This is the kind of quality the art needs to be to get on a book cover. Usually pencil, colored pencil or markers are a bad choice for a book cover, because in the art world, and probably beyond, they’re considered an amateurish medium, used by children – unless the art in question is this good. Not saying I’d use it for an actual cover – a cover would probably need to be a bit more interesting – but I am saying it’s good enough to be on a book cover. This is how good it needs to be.
Now, if anyone were to comment on the nose or the chin of this drawing, I would get offended, because in this case, I would know it’s not a remark on the quality of the drawing but the face that is drawn, because the quality of the drawing itself is beyond reproach. The likeness in the drawing is made to perfection. This IS my sister, this IS her face, just as good as any photograph could capture her. The likeness of the cover above, however, is not this good, and taking offense at anything said about the drawing as if it was said about the model’s actual face is downright silly.
The author of the drawing is now 26 years old, I think, but she wasn’t much worse than this in high school: http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs4/i/2004/257/7/1/Brad_Pitt_by_Cataclysm_X.jpg
THIS is talent. Not saying you can’t be this good with a lot less talent and a whole lot of practice. Talent only gets you so far, without practice it’s nothing.
Hope I haven’t hurt anyone’s feelings with this, but this is how things are.
*applauds*
Thank you Catie. You beat that dead horse! Beat it to prevent zombie horses rising from the grave. We are behind you. Your post is exactly the entire point of the entire Mam section of the argument, sketched beautifully in pencil.
**It’s okay Dan, we like you know, so you don’t need to defend or explain anything else. 😉 This is for your supporter who is honestly doing your work more harm than good.**
Mam,
The link here shows artwork worthy of a cover. This is ultra realistic, but that doesn’t mean that other styles of art such as any cartoon style isn’t allowed on a cover.
The Manga style of art (because Anime is animated as you found out when you Googled Anime earlier) is certainly allowed on a book cover. It still needs to be good Manga though. If People saw a good Manga cover, they instantly would think that it was Manga book and it would defeat the book just as bad as this cover. It just doesn’t fit!
Dan has already said that your daughters were rushed, that they hadn’t worked in this medium before, that the original sketch was much better, and that he altered it a little in the cover design program. There is no blaming them anymore for this.
He has forgiven your daughters for this cover.
We have forgiven your daughters for this cover.
Why can’t you forgive your daughters for this cover?
Well said, Waffles. The sketches Catie referenced are very good – in fact the newer one is spectacular! I’d put that one on a cover in a heartbeat.
Kris –
It is well said and I agree with many of the points, but as I mentioned in another post up top to Aoxotl, the comments are hurting the two teens that designed the angel and they shouldn’t. These two amazing young women did what I asked as the author. Again, we should NOT, as adults, take blame and punishment out on two teenagers who were only following a former teacher they love and respect. We know the art is not the best and was not the best decision to make for this cover. But the blame come to ME. I’m sick to my stomach each night because I made a poor decision involving these two young women in this process. They really do not deserve disrespect or criticism because they listened to an adult. It’s like saying, “Well Kris I’m going to have to lock up your two kids for shoplifting even though I know and got it on tape that you encouraged them to take the can of soup.” (Okay pardon my overdramatic example) But can you see my point in this issue?
Dan – PLEASE stop beating yourself up!!! NO ONE on this thread blames you.
It’s Mam herself who keep stirring the pot. She wants us to agree with her comments and we cannot. She is flat-out wrong about everything she posted: the drawing doesn’t look like her daughter’s actual face, there is no “bullying” of her daughters, she clearly doesn’t know what anime is, and she was wrong to pull the race card into this, making unkind remarks about Mexican noses!
Let it go. Go out to dinner and have a glass of wine. Take all the good advice you learned from this post – and now stop checking in. Go forth and prosper. 😉
How do you know that it does not look like my daughter, u don’t I’m not arguing with u but it’s the truth dan and I are the only ones that know except for Nathan which I messaged him privately with the side by side view of the cover and her picture.
With all that is said I have decided that since I am defending my daughters that I am willing to share other things they have done I am creating a Facebook page specifically for u to take a look at what they have done and to critique them. All I ask is to keep any hurtful comments out. Give them advice tell what u think they can do better I will even have the side by side views of this cover and my daughters photo along with the original pencil draw. And u can give them the advice on what u think the could have done better. I do ask that you do not mention this site though because it would be detrimental to my youngest daughter
I do not have to forgive my daughters for anything they did as they where asked I even told Dan that it could be better if they had more time but that besides the point. He was pleased with it and I said ok….
At any rate like I said earlier I have created a group on facebook I have put different drawings on their of theirs some of them good some horrible but it shows their growth.
Since my eldest daughter Tyla will be graduating next year from high school and perusing a career in art I feel your critiques would be beneficial to her.
My youngest daughter uses art as a coping skill, one that has benefited her in over coming her suicide attempts to being bullied.
I would just ask that you keep that in mind if you go to the page and critique them. They are up for your honest opinions but keep in mind they are still impressional young adults and to be compassionate about it. Let them know what they could do to improve their work.
Again there are two projects that they are currently working on for a grade so right now they are excited for any feed back you may have.
Ok I have the Facebook page set up you are all welcome to look critique, but also give advice on how they can improve themselves I did let my daughter know I was creating this page and they are excited to hear what professionals have to say on improving their work and how. I have posted their failed drawings from when they where younger as well as current just to show their improvement but to also have younger children interested in art to also post their pictures as well for your advice as professionals to them.
If you have facebook the group page is simply name “Young Artist”
I have used the book cover as the group photo so you could find it easily.
Tyla and Nicarra both have projects they are currently working on for their drawing classes posted on there to see what advice you would have for them.
And just for a final coda to this thread: I’ve got three more comments in moderation for two more supporters of Mam 1087 — two more supporters who, oddly enough, have the same IP address as Mam herself. The fact that this tiger mom appears to think that sockpuppeting is the way to win an argument is just sad, sad, sad. And with that, I’ll close comments on this post.