Meh, it’s a designer thing. A regular, non-designer person wouldn’t give it any thought–any more than they would Comic Sans, Bleeding Cowboys, Zapfino, etc. All those fonts have been “good” and usable and right, in their time and place.
But what happens is, designers see them over and over and over and over, and then, not only that, but woefully misused, over and over and..well, you get the idea. It becomes a matter of…I dunno. We start wincing when we see it, due to massive overuse, and then some snotty designer somewhere decides that only a plebe would use that, now, b/c “they don’t know any better” and the next thing you know, all designers everywhere are of a Hive Mind, that “Font X bad.”
And yes, we’re guilty of it here, too. I still have real font love for Bleeding Cowboys. It was a great font when it arrived on the scene. I find it hard to disparage some DIY cover designer who uses it, because when I first saw it, I too loved it and looked for ways to use it, like Brilon_12 is now, or the endlessly overused Avenir Next. Shortly, we’ll hear designers disparaging those, too.
In short…it’s a snob thing. If you’re making your own cover, or wedding invite or whatever, honestly, I wouldn’t pay it any attention. We’re all indulging in a bit of snark when we pick on Papyrus and all the rest. (My only defense is that I think that James Cameron is a raving jerk; that Avatar was derivative [Dances With Wolves in Space], and thus, I indulge in Papyrus-hate. Oh, and it doesn’t work worth a damn in eBooks, which is my main wheelhouse.) I’m sure some others might come along and have a more well-thought-out reason to loathe Papyrus, et al.
And let’s also mention that Papyrus is hard to use WELL — the spacing (“kerning”) between uppercase and lowercase letters often leaves huge, unsightly gaps in words.
Yes, you are absolutely correct in that. If someone only has something like Word, it makes kerning that correctly rather tricky. Hell, it’s tricky with the right software!
I am tempted to load and examine my copy of the Papyrus postcript font metrics table, if my old computer will wake up.
I am willing to surmise that Papyrus has no kerning values specified for character pairs like To just like old time metal type fonts.
We had the same problem at the Press with our 1970s VideoComp digital fonts that had to closely match the metal fonts. No kerning values for character pairs unless you manually inserted backspace tags in the text files.
It was usually only a problem in larger pointsizes like titles and heads, so manual tweaking was not a biggie. Papyrus caps are so huge that kerning gaps are obvious in ordinary text.
I’ve looked for kerning pairs in Papyrus and I don’t see them. At one point in time, I considered generating some, but…I mean, that’s a lotta lotta work, (presuming I’d do it correctly instead of auto-genning them through something like HL’s FontCreator), for a font that I probably shan’t use more than once every 5 years.
If anybody here seems them, speak up. I could be blind. 😉
I did use Fontographer to recreate in postscript special character fonts I had created in VideoComp and Linotron202. The idea of creating a version of Papyrus with rational kerning pairs appealed to me. After the demise of the Press on 2004 I saw no point in pursuing fonts. I have noticed one or two Papyrus look-a-likes over the years. Used in context Papyrus is not a bad font.
Papyrus was designed by Chris Costello in 1982 to literally simulate lettering on on papyrus paper; think: B.C. Biblical era up to say 100 A.D. to be used for modern language text in an ancient setting.
The designer admits Papyrus has been misused and abused beyond his intent.
To me, it is a cool font when used appropriately. Used inappropriately it is as jarring as Chiller would be in a romance novel.
If I recall correctly, he sold it to Letraset, a company that made stick on letters us old folks used back in the day, and it was they who later created the font, so he really can’t be blamed for the horrible kerning.
Well, now that I know how old…err… not young? everyone is, maybe that’s why I am completely lost when everyone was talking about the font generating programs. Is it because I’m 23 and those programs are older than that, or am I just out of touch? Lol.
MWAHAHAHAHA, brother, not only are my favorite JEANS older than you, (I s**t thee not!), but yes, most of what we’re talking about, software-wise and improv-wise, are older than you are, too. MWAHAHAHAHA. Oh, g-d, I needed that laugh.
I’m 31 so I think I’m younger than your jeans too. But, if I understand correctly, Nathan is about my mother’s age. So he can be my dad and you can be my grandma. Yay!
Y’know, junior, you’re not so far away that I can’t drive up there and slap you silly. I may be (almost) old enough to be your mum, but I’m still able to land a punch. Perry Como my ass…
The real question is: How do you get your jeans to last that long? I conceal carry, so I get a hole right were my holster sits after about 2-3 years of use.
The dreaded Papyrus claims another victim.
Papyrus, Serial Killer of Covers, Beloved of James Cameron, Defiler of Text, step forth and answer for your crimes.
I have to ask, while I don’t necessarily love the font, why is Papyrus considered to be such a big no-no?
Meh, it’s a designer thing. A regular, non-designer person wouldn’t give it any thought–any more than they would Comic Sans, Bleeding Cowboys, Zapfino, etc. All those fonts have been “good” and usable and right, in their time and place.
But what happens is, designers see them over and over and over and over, and then, not only that, but woefully misused, over and over and..well, you get the idea. It becomes a matter of…I dunno. We start wincing when we see it, due to massive overuse, and then some snotty designer somewhere decides that only a plebe would use that, now, b/c “they don’t know any better” and the next thing you know, all designers everywhere are of a Hive Mind, that “Font X bad.”
And yes, we’re guilty of it here, too. I still have real font love for Bleeding Cowboys. It was a great font when it arrived on the scene. I find it hard to disparage some DIY cover designer who uses it, because when I first saw it, I too loved it and looked for ways to use it, like Brilon_12 is now, or the endlessly overused Avenir Next. Shortly, we’ll hear designers disparaging those, too.
In short…it’s a snob thing. If you’re making your own cover, or wedding invite or whatever, honestly, I wouldn’t pay it any attention. We’re all indulging in a bit of snark when we pick on Papyrus and all the rest. (My only defense is that I think that James Cameron is a raving jerk; that Avatar was derivative [Dances With Wolves in Space], and thus, I indulge in Papyrus-hate. Oh, and it doesn’t work worth a damn in eBooks, which is my main wheelhouse.) I’m sure some others might come along and have a more well-thought-out reason to loathe Papyrus, et al.
🙂
And let’s also mention that Papyrus is hard to use WELL — the spacing (“kerning”) between uppercase and lowercase letters often leaves huge, unsightly gaps in words.
Yes, you are absolutely correct in that. If someone only has something like Word, it makes kerning that correctly rather tricky. Hell, it’s tricky with the right software!
I suppose that makes sense. The current font I’m in love with is Copperplate Gothic just because it’s simple, but not too plain.
You’re not alone. Hollyweird adores Copperplate Gothic; you can see it in titles and credits on 80 out of 100 movies, if not more. 🙂
So, I should probably find a new font before Copperplate becomes the new Papyrus then?
I think I’ll pass on answering that one, but you may want to consider a fallback, yes. 😀
How about Comic Papyrus?
I am tempted to load and examine my copy of the Papyrus postcript font metrics table, if my old computer will wake up.
I am willing to surmise that Papyrus has no kerning values specified for character pairs like To just like old time metal type fonts.
We had the same problem at the Press with our 1970s VideoComp digital fonts that had to closely match the metal fonts. No kerning values for character pairs unless you manually inserted backspace tags in the text files.
It was usually only a problem in larger pointsizes like titles and heads, so manual tweaking was not a biggie. Papyrus caps are so huge that kerning gaps are obvious in ordinary text.
I’ve looked for kerning pairs in Papyrus and I don’t see them. At one point in time, I considered generating some, but…I mean, that’s a lotta lotta work, (presuming I’d do it correctly instead of auto-genning them through something like HL’s FontCreator), for a font that I probably shan’t use more than once every 5 years.
If anybody here seems them, speak up. I could be blind. 😉
I did use Fontographer to recreate in postscript special character fonts I had created in VideoComp and Linotron202. The idea of creating a version of Papyrus with rational kerning pairs appealed to me. After the demise of the Press on 2004 I saw no point in pursuing fonts. I have noticed one or two Papyrus look-a-likes over the years. Used in context Papyrus is not a bad font.
Papyrus was designed by Chris Costello in 1982 to literally simulate lettering on on papyrus paper; think: B.C. Biblical era up to say 100 A.D. to be used for modern language text in an ancient setting.
The designer admits Papyrus has been misused and abused beyond his intent.
To me, it is a cool font when used appropriately. Used inappropriately it is as jarring as Chiller would be in a romance novel.
If I recall correctly, he sold it to Letraset, a company that made stick on letters us old folks used back in the day, and it was they who later created the font, so he really can’t be blamed for the horrible kerning.
In fact, here’s an article if you’re interested.
Ah, Letraset… I remember my dad giving me the old sheets with nothing but extra Js and Qs and Xs left on them…
I just wanna say, officially, we’re all old. Except Nathan, whose DAD gave him the leftover Letraset letters, LOL.
Hell, kids, I spent time setting hot lead! Whoo-whoo!
Well, I am staring down the barrel of fifty, and I have at least one balding child, so I’m not THAT young…
Well, now that I know how old…err… not young? everyone is, maybe that’s why I am completely lost when everyone was talking about the font generating programs. Is it because I’m 23 and those programs are older than that, or am I just out of touch? Lol.
MWAHAHAHAHA, brother, not only are my favorite JEANS older than you, (I s**t thee not!), but yes, most of what we’re talking about, software-wise and improv-wise, are older than you are, too. MWAHAHAHAHA. Oh, g-d, I needed that laugh.
I’m 31 so I think I’m younger than your jeans too. But, if I understand correctly, Nathan is about my mother’s age. So he can be my dad and you can be my grandma. Yay!
Moses on a Pony. Now I’m really depressed.
Just go listen to your Perry Como 78s. That’ll cheer you up.
Y’know, junior, you’re not so far away that I can’t drive up there and slap you silly. I may be (almost) old enough to be your mum, but I’m still able to land a punch. Perry Como my ass…
The real question is: How do you get your jeans to last that long? I conceal carry, so I get a hole right were my holster sits after about 2-3 years of use.
I’m a girl. My conceal carry is higher. I can’t abide those inner-pants holsters, so for me, it’s shoulder x-draw under a jacket or purse clip.
Ye Gods, Nathan, I’m nearly old enough to be your mum and yes, folks, that depresses the high holy s**t out of me…
That dragon looks suspiciously a lot like a skeksis.
Wow, so close…