Sticky: Empress Theresa

[Sticky so I can’t be accused of not putting this where “it would be seen by people.” You’ll understand later.]

Aug14-6_-finalcover.24164342_std[1]

 

For the full story…

I posted earlier covers for Empress Theresa here in April.  Today, the following conversation ensued with the Norman Boutin, the author and illustrator, in the comments to that post:

Norman Boutin says: 

Check out my latest and FINAL cover.

Notice how far better it is than the graphic design junk you sell to naive writers.

I dare you to put it on your website.

I know you won’t

Nathan says:

My guess is that your message is meant to be challenging, but it ends up more confusing than anything else.

Notice how far better it is than the graphic design junk you sell to naive writers.

Um… I’m not selling ANYTHING to “naive writers” (unlike you, of course, good sir). I’ve designed some book covers, but those are mostly for friends, and I don’t promote those services here.

I dare you to put it on your website.
I know you won’t

Are you saying that your cover is so great that I wouldn’t dare to post it here because [insert reason that makes sense to you]? Actually, I’ll post it right here:

Your art skills (assuming you are your own cover artist) are improving somewhat, but still a long way from a professional level. Frankly, if this third cover were the first one I had seen, I’d STILL post it here.

Norman Boutin says:

Nathan,

That is not the latest cover. It is the KINDLE edition cover which hasn’t been updated yet ( except in the KINDLE Store )
The latest cover can be seen in the Paperback version. The sky is a darker blue than in the version you showed.

In any case,

you didn’t put it up at the head of the thread where it should be and where it would be seen by people.
I knew you wouldn’t. It would make your sad cover designs look ridiculous.

Latest cover design can be seen on empresstheresa.com,

Nathan says: 

Oh good lord, Norman. You’re not exactly making it easy for me — the Amazon link at the very start of this thread isn’t where the book is anymore, apparently.

And you seem to have a ridiculously high opinion of yourself. So here’s what I’ll do: I’ll post in on the FRONT PAGE of the site. Heck, I’ll make it sticky for a couple of days so everyone can get a good look. And then, when a dozen people tell you that your cover sucks, you can get all mad at them because you’re soooo much more talented than they realize.

So there we are. Promises kept, and all that.

 

53 Comments
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Sneaky Burrito
10 years ago

It’s not just the cover that’s the issue (and it IS an issue), it’s this author’s pattern of behavior. Around the same time he was featured on this site, it became known that he was posting spammy comments on reviews of unrelated books on Amazon, directing people to his book’s page. He also apparently 5-starred his own book, although that’s since been taken down.

Makes for kind of long reading, but:

http://www.amazon.com/forum/top%20reviewers/ref=cm_cd_pg_newest?_encoding=UTF8&authToken=&cdForum=Fx2Z5LRXMSUDQH2&cdPage=1&cdSort=oldest&cdThread=Tx1W7VDYFE0A46R

The reviews of his book are also telling:

http://www.amazon.com/Empress-Theresa-Norman-Boutin/product-reviews/1495450422/ref=cm_rdp_hist_hdr_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

Tia
Tia
10 years ago
Reply to  Sneaky Burrito

His posts on the Catholic Answers forum about his book are also quite telling:

https://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=810059&page=9

Bruce
Bruce
10 years ago
Reply to  Sneaky Burrito

Boutin must subscribe to the “There’s no such thing as bad publicity (or book covers)” marketing philosophy.

Tia
Tia
10 years ago

So Empress Theresa serves in some branch of the US military and stands expressionless while people lay on the ground with their rifles? Still gives no clue about what the story is — paper dolls of the world? You could have at least finished with her shirt/collar/neck before so proudly posting it.

red
red
10 years ago
Reply to  Tia

I thought those things on the ground were garden slugs.

James F. Brown
James F. Brown
10 years ago
Reply to  Tia

Not only that, she’s a 5-star general! Forget that this rank has been retired since the end of WWII, and that there are no longer any living 5-stars. Facts are just such slippery things, and are best ignored.

Howard
Howard
10 years ago

To be fair to the artist, whatever version you post, it really is a great book cover picture

Kris
10 years ago
Reply to  Howard

Is this comment a joke?

Annie Moose
Annie Moose
10 years ago
Reply to  Howard

It’s a great… idea, or at least an OK one, but the execution leaves something to be desired. Or a lot to be desired. You get the picture.

scott colbert
scott colbert
10 years ago

As wretched inside as it is outside.

gp
gp
10 years ago

The blank stare doesn’t attract interest. The hand-drawn art isn’t quite right, and won’t compare to the many wonderful covers that take advantage of the graphic arts. The cover doesn’t tell me what to expect inside. Comparing the title to the picture has me confused. I don’t see a connection. There are, unfortunately, issues to correct to make this cover highly effective.

ZeeWulf
ZeeWulf
10 years ago

…first let’s start with the uniform. Since the “newer” art is covering up the single medal I’m just not going to bother with it, but allow me to note that a 5 star would have an impressive fruit salad which would extend above the title bar at least in some part. And I’ll also refrain from being incredulous that a general in the air force exists without pilots wings. This IS air force, right? Because if those are the new army uniform, the US tabs are wrong. They should have a brass disc.

If it is air force, the idea of a 5 star general being in their branch is laughable at best. Also, there hasn’t been a 5 star since Ike.

Let’s move on to the…tanks? Those are tanks? What are they, T55s? Old Russian pieces? Or maybe they’re Patton tanks from Vietnam. They sure aren’t Abrams. Of course it barely looks like a tank anyway.

Yup, this is poorly done refrigerator art…and if the scribbler wishes to ask if I could do any better. ..nope, but that’s why I hire someone. Because I recognize my limits and what good art is.

James F. Brown
James F. Brown
10 years ago
Reply to  ZeeWulf

Omar Bradley was the last living 5-star, and he died in 1981.

ZeeWulf
ZeeWulf
10 years ago
Reply to  James F. Brown

Bradley made it to 5? I didn’t realize that, my mistake. I knew it was WWII generals that were pretty much the only ones to use the rank, but for some reason I’d not known there had been another after Eisenhower. Thanks!

Kris
10 years ago

@NormanBoutin: This cover is ridiculously childish and amateur. Period. Judging by your reviews and behavior, perhaps the apple falls close to the tree.

Sirona
10 years ago

Dear Norman,
As you can see, Nathan met your challenge. And since if he posts it, we will come…here we are.

In simple terms, what you have produced here is poor quality, amateur art suitable for displaying with pride on your nightstand. It might be a mouse’s breath better than the last version, but customers looking to buy a book will only see this version of it and they’ll run away cuz IT’S CRAPPY, CRAPPY, CRAPPY, SHITTY cover art.

That’s just the way it is. No one’s impressed by it or your egotistical attitude. Get over yourself, grow a pair, and accept criticism. Better yet, don’t just accept it…learn from it. If you dare.

Viergacht
Viergacht
10 years ago
Nick
10 years ago

Oh, not this again…

For what it’s worth, this cover IS an improvement over the first two…not that such a thing would be difficult. The cover is still impossibly amateurish by any normal standards, and does not speak at all well for the text inside (which itself, to be blunt, needs a ton of work).

Norman, if you read this: please hire a cover artist before doing any future covers. It’s not that expensive if you shop around a bit. And PLEASE take a good look at yourself and your work, and then consider why it is that so many people end up criticising you. Perhaps you’ll end up learning something. I highly doubt it, given your behaviour so far, but still.

Patrick
Patrick
10 years ago

Norman, unfortunately you are not a competent illustrator. Your art is decent for playing around with, but nowhere near of professional quality and it’s not doing your book any favors.

ItsyBitsy
ItsyBitsy
10 years ago

o_O

Yes well, I suppose it is kind of improvement. Like swapping from #11 to #72 without any warning… on Bristol Stool Scale.

1 Separate hard lumps, like nuts, hard to pass
2 Watery, no solid pieces, entirely liquid

Suzie
Suzie
10 years ago

Wondering why some the the little soldiers only have one leg.

Sorry cover is just childish art.

Take Cover
Take Cover
10 years ago

Needs more buttons.

Ron Miller
Ron Miller
10 years ago

I love it when he compares his book to the Bible. At least he’s never tried to illustrate that book.

Ron Miller
Ron Miller
10 years ago
Ron Miller
Ron Miller
10 years ago
Reply to  Ron Miller

I see that I was mistaken. That was the original cover.

Check out the, uh, fit of Empress Theresa’s uniform jacket in this portrait: http://empresstheresa.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/General_cover_-_Crop.132185629_std.jpg

ItsyBitsy
ItsyBitsy
10 years ago
Reply to  Ron Miller

I will now steal a standard response from Escher Girls blog:

“BOOBS DON’T WORK THAT WAY!”

Annie Moose
Annie Moose
10 years ago
Reply to  ItsyBitsy

Looks like a classic “runaway breasts” to me, too.

ZeeWulf
ZeeWulf
10 years ago
Reply to  Annie Moose

It looks like it needs “DERP” at the bottom.

Ron Miller
Ron Miller
10 years ago
Reply to  Ron Miller

Holy smoke! The book has a “Study Guide”!

Dave
Dave
10 years ago

Okay, this is a quibble, but look at how those soldiers are posed. They apparently have their knees straight while their arms and toes support their weight. This is fine for someone doing push-ups, but not for shooting. I know, this is far from the only problem w/ this cover, but it was something I noticed.

Ron Miller
Ron Miller
10 years ago

By the way, for everyone who has wondered about what’s going on in the cover, here is what the author has to say: “This is the final version at least for the next year. This one took me three months to paint. I wouldn’t do another one unless I spent at least a year on it. The image shows Theresa leading a column of fifty thousand South Koreans soldiers into Pyongyang, North Korea. The crowd’s dictatorial leaders have ordered them to attack.”

Three months?

ItsyBitsy
ItsyBitsy
10 years ago
Reply to  Ron Miller

Isn’t this a case where even stiff 3D art would be a huge improvement?

Tuula
10 years ago
Reply to  Ron Miller

Where are the 50 000?

Tuula
10 years ago

The painting looks like some whimsical, naive folk art, at first glance, but then I rolled down and hey, the woman has no hands. Those sleeves just hang empty. Way to go.

Karl
10 years ago
Reply to  Tuula

Yeah; that’s why I hate the top version slightly less; the blank, shell-shocked expression is somewhat justified by the fact that — judging from those empty sleeves — both her arms have been amputated.

Overall, call me un-empressed. 😀

Jana
10 years ago

The top version is the newer, ‘better’ version? I think the one with the lighter sky is marginally better. That said, it’s not very good, and definitely not good enough to be used as a book cover. If my 12-year-old came home from school with it, I’d proudly post it on the fridge, but as a book cover…?? No.

LydiaFCG
LydiaFCG
10 years ago

It doesn’t matter how much time this took you, it’s still bad. Please stop.

Moe
Moe
10 years ago

Since I have not (and do not plan to) read the book, but I do have quite a few years experience in both graphic and more traditional art, allow me to critique based purely on visuals.

First off: overall composition. The character being dead center would be fine if there were any other redeeming qualities or interesting or not-tiny parts to the background. Because she is so centered and so much the only point of interest with nothing espeically interesting about her, when I look at the image all I see is the green microphone curving around her face. If she is going to be front and center she at least needs to give us a reason to be looking at her – an expression, an action,compelling light… pretty much anything. Or, alternatively, the background images need to be more interesting. You would need to use the flow of the crowd to the left and the soldiers and tanks to the right to create a place for the eye to move so the viewer isn’t left with nothing of interest and no place for the eye to go.
You will also need to consider what you are saying about the character by putting her front-and-center, and why she is there. “She is the title character” is not a good reason. A lot can be said about a title or main character without ever showing them – you might consider what could be said about yours without showing her, or without showing her face.

Assuming that the way she actuallty looks (proportions of face are not awful, but you would benefit very much from some close inspection of a few different references to get small things like the microphone, the way the hat and uniform sits, her stance) are a style choice and not an expression of experience, the whole image looks like it has a sepia tone over it, like a filter or overlay. It could be a quality of the scan issue, but if that is the case you should take more pride in your work than allowing such a shift of quality and should get it scanned again, professionally if it was not before.
If it was a concious color choice I believe it was a bad one. It makes the whole image flat and, again, uninteresting. You have a good opprotunity to show the contrast of the pale blue sky with the dark blue uniform (possibly symbolizing hope? Or whatever you’d like it to – it would help to set her apart and above everything going on around her). You have further opprotunity to show the contrast between her blue and the bright colors of the details of the uniform and what is going on around her – if the city and large concrete area (?) are grey, the uniforms of the soldiers are muted, the clothing of the crowd are muted, etc, then they become background and all the blue becomes interest.

You will need to pay attention to where you are cropping your main character at, also. Any time you cut off at a joint, such as the elbow in the newer version and the wrist in the older, you create the impression the limb below is not there, and makes it something the reader’s eye will catch right away because it creates an awkward feeling.

Also, if this did indeed take you three years to paint, why did you either not take in to account where your title would be, or why were you willing to cover up such a huge portion of the painting for the wasted space around the title? You’ve covered about 25% of the image with the flat-color bar that was added after the scan.

Just below the bar I can see (presumably) the shadows from her breasts. As a note – I would suggest using references or women in uniform if you try to paint her again because speaking as a woman, those are positioned very incorrectly for someone with natural breasts and the uniform buttons are not positioned correctly for the way a uniform would fit over anything but a flat chest.

You may want to find a different way to frame your title – either by not using the color bar, or by not stacking the words and having them side by side instead. Right now there is about 50% of that bar that is wasted space. Also, the drop shadow doesn’t really add anything to the text, it only serves to make it seem blurrier.

In the positives for this image:
-it really isn’t too bad of an attempt. It needs refining of concept and basic principals of art, but you have obviously put thought and care into the attempt.
-some of the small details are not bad – kudos to you for putting such effort into the insignia on the hat.
-you did use a two-point perspecive on the city in the background, and it looks like maybe on the tanks as well. It would be better suited to use it through the whole cover, but you executed the two-point well what you used it on.

ASwan
10 years ago

This is art for which I would give an 8th grade student an ‘A.’ A serious college student would not fare as well. They would probably not scrape a ‘D.’ At least not from my college art instructor.

Axolotl
Axolotl
10 years ago

The cover is shit, the contents are shit, and it appears the author has borderline personality disorder and an unhealthy attitude towards women. And no, I wouldn’t normally be that harsh on a cover posted on here, but the author’s attitude in this case would seem to warrant it.

Karl
10 years ago

I for one am deeply disappointed that Norman hasn’t shown up here to tell us all that we only hate on his wonderful beautiful cover because we’re all 1) evil atheists, and 2) jealous of his unbelievable talent.

Sirona
10 years ago
Reply to  Karl

^^^Like

john harvey
10 years ago
Reply to  Karl

How did he know? He must have read my mind.

Puffy
Puffy
10 years ago

I do think this cover does have some positives, namely:
-the amount of detail in the uniform, which the cover artist clearly used a reference for
-there was actually quite a bit of improvement in the painting of the face
-there isn’t really much wrong with the typography of the cover

That being said, there is also a lot of room for improvement. For example: the clouds. The thousand-yard stare of Theresa. The lack of shading. The lack of dimension in the soldiers and buildings in the background. Also, the color bar accompanying the title. also, although the concept of the cover isn’t bad exactly – showing the main character front and center, with some soldiers and crowds behind her – it’s really dull. What’s happening? Is it saying something exciting about the story? They’re all just standing there.

Since this book is marketed towards teens (12 to 20 years old, if I did my research right), it’s very important that the cover grabs and excites them, especially because this is a suspense story of some sort. If you absolutely cannot hire a good cover artist (or you choose not to), at least work with a good design concept.

And since everyone’s mentioned the author’s attitude, I think I have to put my own two cents in. I will admit that lots of the comments here will be very negative(this site is called Lousy Book Covers, for crying out loud) and hateful, but please remember that everyone who is giving their constructive criticism is trying to HELP you. We’re not telling you this because we think we’re better; we’re telling you this so YOU will be better.

katz
katz
10 years ago

I’m always a little bemused by people who honestly cannot tell good work from bad. I can empathize with people who attempt to do something that’s out of their depth, and even with people who don’t realize they’re out of their depth. But I’m mystified by people who are terrible at something and insist that they’re good at it.

Maybe someone should give him this one-question test.

john harvey
10 years ago

The minute I saw the hat I was excited! Glowing Button Boobs!!

Imagine my dismay when I saw Boutin had covered his heroine’s ample and impossibly-shaped bosom with a placard. Oh, that’s the title? I thought the woman was a chauffeur at the airport trying to pick up that famous cross-dressing dandy Norman Boutin, better known by his stage name, Empress Theresa.

Suzie
Suzie
10 years ago
Reply to  john harvey

Thanks for a great laugh John Harvey!

Waffles
Waffles
10 years ago
Reply to  john harvey

Speaking of that, this image is cut in half to put that text box in there. There is nothing covering anything, at least in the blue version. It is simply cut.

john e. . .
10 years ago
Reply to  Waffles

I think you are perhaps not familiar with the greatness that is the Glowing Button Boobs!!

Waffles
Waffles
10 years ago
Reply to  john e. . .

I remember the greatness, and that hat! Gasp. Lovely.

But yes, look at her in the image that is more blue up there. She is cut in half! Boobs unite, I beg you!

invader
invader
10 years ago

You maker of this book cover just stop already!

Norman Boutin
9 years ago

Zeewulf, who also demonstrated his ignorance on Amazon,
wrote:

QUOTE Bradley made it to 5? I didn’t realize that, my mistake. I knew it was WWII generals that were pretty much the only ones to use the rank, but for some reason I’d not known there had been another after Eisenhower. Thanks!
END QUOTE

There is no provision in law for retiring a five star general, so if he wants to remain on active duty for life he can. Bradley was in a wheelchair in his last years and had no duties, but he was on the active list ’til death.

As for you much longer post just before that, which I won’t copy here,`
1. Theresa swears into the Army as a second lieutenant in the morning and that afternoon she is promoted to five star general at the White House.
2. Her only purpose in joining the Army was to lead a 50,000 man South Korean Army into North Korea.
3. An army of South Koreans are not going to let themselves be led by an American, and a girl at that, unless it’s the top ranking soldier in the U.S. Thus, she’s made a five star general.
4. The only medals she’s entitled to wear are the Army Service Medal, and the Armed Forces Medal. She hasn’t done anything yet.
5. The Army recently changed is ‘service’ uniform from green to very dark blue, which almost looks black in some light conditions. She’s in the Army, not the Air Force..

You would know all this if you’d read the book, or did a little research.
But of course not reading the book doesn’t stop from talking about it like an expert.

Norman Boutin
9 years ago

Also,

6. Theresa doesn’t know which end of a rifle the bullet comes out of,
but she has more power than all the world’s armies combined. Soldiers respect power. They’ll follow her.
7. The South Koreans want the reunification of Korea. Only Theresa can do it. They will follow her.
8. Theresa would flunk boot camp, but she’s a master psychologist. She knows that when pushed to the edge, the citizens of Pyongyang will rally to her rather than be futilely slaughtered for their idiot dictatorial leaders.